Talk:Military Cross

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Contents 1 Posthumous awards 2 Wilfred Owen 3 Notable Awards 4 Wallington 5 RAF

[edit] Posthumous awards

The reference supplied for the "awarded for" information in the article implies that the MC can be given posthumously "Most of the awards, save only for membership of Orders, can be given posthumously". Unless you have a reference to the contrary it therefore seems reasonable to assume that such awards could indeed be made. David Underdown 12:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I was struck by this anon edit so I did a little reading and looking around. The Warrant makes no reference to posthumous awards, neither do reference works on the topic. Further, looking at one or two operational honours lists, I have not come across any instances of posthumous awards. My researches have been brief, but the anon editor seems to have a decent circumstantial case, albeit not yet decisively proven. The MoD document above is pretty vague on the matter, not stating specifically yes or no, so I don't think it is of too much help. I'll try and look into it in a bit more detail later on tonight. In the meantime I'll reinstate his edit.

Xdamr^talk 12:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

In 1979 the Queen approved a proposal that a number of awards including the Military Cross could in future be awarded posthumously. P E Abbott and J M A Tamplin, British Gallantry Awards, 1981, Nimrod Dix and Co, ISBN 0 902633 74 0, page xx. The first posthumous Military Cross was to the late Captain Herbert Richard Westmacott (491354), Grenadier Guards for gallantry in Northern Ireland during the period 1 February 1980 to 30 April 1980. London Gazette Tuesday, 21 October 1980 page 14607.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 15:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wilfred Owen

On his page it says he was awarded the military cross posthumeously but here it says it never is, is that a possible error?

124.197.29.201 07:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

See the discussion above, the situation re posthumous awards is not entirely clear. David Underdown 13:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I've just found http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/wo373.asp which states that "Prior to 1979 only the Victoria Cross and George Cross or a Mention in Despatches could be awarded posthumously". I suspect that in the case of Owen it is more confused wording than anything else. His MC was for actions in October 1918, however, it may well not have been gazetted until after his death. This is not strictly a posthumous award, as that would imply he died carrying out the action for which the award was made. David Underdown 14:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Awards

Isn't this an oxymoron? Surely all awards of the MC are notable. However, as there are many hundreds of them (or thousands) then having a section labelled Notable Awards will only encourage people to keep adding more and more MC citations. These are better off in individual articles. I propose to delete this section. Any thoughts? Gillyweed 01:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. This could get huge and unmanageable. The ones mentioned currently are of course interesting but should be covered in the relevant persons' articles. As long as those people are in the Receipients of the Military Cross category, there's a simple link here which means we can avoid duplication. Cheers, Ian Rose 01:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I gave the section its current title, mainly because I thought that the first award to a woman was sufficiently out of the common run to be specifically mentioned. Not all aards of the MC are notable in the Wikiepdia sense of the word, only the award of the VC and GC are held to confer automatic notability, i.e. a person gets an article purely on the basis of that award. The title can perhaps be re-worked, as I take the point about appearing to be an invitation to add more and more individual cases. David Underdown 08:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wallington

Gazette search results only turn up an MC and two bars, not three. This isn't 100% conclusive as the OCR process used on older Gazettes isn't totally accurate, but I suggest we don't let this linger around too long if the original editor doesn't back it up with some references. David Underdown (talk) 11:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, a google search turned up this http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Uw98jVk5pkoC&pg=PA351&lpg=PA351&dq=%22francis+victor+wallington%22&source=web&ots=uSM5DqFMeQ&sig=fP1sYPfmMjGqA1FYEO37DY7NwJA&hl=en#PPA343,M1 Wallington was one of four officers who received the MC and 3 bars in WWI, the dating of the awards shown in this book doesn't really back up the assetion that they were for actions over just a few months, they were gazetted over a period of almost 21 months (though recommendations do sometimes take a while to work through the system of course). Based on this, I'm not sure Wallington derseves to be mentioned by himself in this article, but giving the names of all four officers might be reasonable. David Underdown (talk) 11:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Wallington was the first officer awarded a third bar to the Military Cross. His third bar was gazetted on 16 September 1918. The other three third bars were all gazetted on 1 February 1919.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 23:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Now clarified. David Underdown (talk) 17:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RAF

From 1931 for the RAF but only for action the ground. Is the RAF still eligible, and how many have been awardrd to members of the RAF? Hugo999 (talk) 23:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

They're certainly still eligible, see David Hayden for the most recent example (so far I know). There were a number awarded in World War II for actions when an escaping POW, both in the RAF istelf, and the RAAF and other Commonwealth air forces, such as Nicky Barr. I don't know total figures though. David Underdown (talk) 09:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)