Talk:Messianic Bible translations
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[edit] What do I consider a "Messianic Bible Translation"?
A Messianic Bible Translation can be defined as a translation of the Bible that is a) Produced by a Messianic Jewish translator/organization b)Translates the Tanakh based on the Masoretic text c) Does not contain antinomian translational renderings present in most Christian Bible translations, and USUALLY but not NECESSARILY d)Renders names and places in Hebraized format.
The "Hebrew Names" version of the World English Bible meets none but the fourth of the above criteria (which is not truly essential for a MJ translation) and is produced by a conventional Christian denominational organization, not a Messianic Jewish organization. Furthermore, although it does render original Hebrew names/places, it pronounces the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), which NO Messianic translations that I know of do, and which the majority of Messianics find objectionable or are at the very least uncomfortable with. The vast majority of Messianic Bible translations would meet all four criteria, and render the sacred Tetragrammaton as "Adonai" or "El<...>, not as a pronounced Yud-Heh-Vauv-Heh"
That is why I am removing it from this list. Thank you, and please raise any objections here. Noogster 01:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- Great to know this, but if it is a common view (and not simply your view) perhaps this "definition" should be stated in the article. I'd like to avoid misunderstandings of article intent as happened at Jewish English Bible translations. Actually, I would like to see a list of "Jew-targeted" translations (e.g. WEB) as well. Do we need yet another article for this? I'm hoping not. I think it would be informative to put both there, with a section for messianic translations and another for translations that a non-messianic might consider messianic. ⇔ ChristTrekker 15:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- To further clarify my earlier comment: you say, "A Messianic Bible Translation can be defined as [...]", and you're right, it can be defined that way, but a plain reading of the title gives the impression of a broader definition. This is the point I was trying to make before; a plain reading by those "outside the circle" yields a different definition than what "insiders" would understand it to be. I think WP should appeal to both groups by including both types here, but denoting the distinction. Where else is a reader going to go to find translations like WEB:ME? The casual reader would certainly expect to find it right here. We certainly can create another article (indeed, the previous discussion precipitated this article) but how far do you split hairs? ⇔ ChristTrekker 21:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I think putting the "Hebrew Names" version of the World English Bible and anything similar into a new article called Missionary Bible Translations would be very appropriate; there have been a tremendous number of such Bibles through history. I can pretty assuredly tell you that they don't belong in this Messianic Bible Translations article, though, because Messianic Bible translations are always produced by a Messianic translator/organization, and are generally produced primarily to serve the needs of Messianic congregations/synagogues and not as missionary outreaches. Noogster 01:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- OK...if you'd rather go that route. Can you suggest a better name, though? Any translation can be used by missionaries...often the point of the translation is to evangelize a new group of people. What about Jewish missionary bible translations? That's possibly confusing—is "Jewish" describing the evangelizer or the evanglized? This is partly why I suggested combining both here, but making the distinction between them. ⇔ ChristTrekker 05:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I think putting the "Hebrew Names" version of the World English Bible and anything similar into a new article called Missionary Bible Translations would be very appropriate; there have been a tremendous number of such Bibles through history. I can pretty assuredly tell you that they don't belong in this Messianic Bible Translations article, though, because Messianic Bible translations are always produced by a Messianic translator/organization, and are generally produced primarily to serve the needs of Messianic congregations/synagogues and not as missionary outreaches. Noogster 01:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A note about "contrary to Jewish tradition"
Quoted: but also employs the Hebrew יהוה for the proper name of God throughout, contrary to Jewish tradition. Let's be very careful about phrasing this so as not to confuse uninitiated readers of this article. The four Hebrew letters Yud-Heh-Vauv-Heh simply being written on paper is not contrary to Jewish tradition (if you ever see "Adonai" or "HaShem" on a Torah scroll then the scroll is definitely not kosher), it is the attempted PRONUNCIATION of the Name that is. As far as I'm concerned they could be simply writing out (in unpointed Hebrew) what is already there in the Hebrew manuscripts in order to provide maximal theological leeway to those that are reading from the text. Noogster 23:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think I've presented a satisfactory verbal compromise. Noogster 02:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] RSTNE and HRV Messianic Bibles
Someone might like to research a couple of other Messianic bible translations which are gaining wide circulation:
1. Restoration Scriptures True Name Edition (RSTNE) which is now running into its third edition. It is published by [Your Arms to Israel].
2. Hebraic-Roots Version (HRV) which uniquely seeks the Aramaic and Hebraic roots of the NT employing the Peshitta and other Syriac texts. It is published by the producers of the ISRV which appears in the main article [ISR] (Landau7 11:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC))
3. The Orthodox Jewish Bible which is written with a view to appealing to the Orthodox Hassidic community of New York and Israel [OJB] (Landau7 13:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC))
4. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_society It should be noted that the editors of the Bible Society wikipedia article refuse to include the organization that publishes The Orthodox Jewish Bible but they are quite willing to list the killer cult that is notorious for forbidding blood transfusions to bleeding-to-death J.W. cult members. This tendentiousness shows a clear bias against Messianic translations and the editor(s) of the Bible Society article should be brought to accountabiltiy for what they are doing, INCLUDING the listing of a cult and EXCLUDING a messianic bible society, afii.org.]
