Talk:Mbira
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[edit] Questions
Got a couple of questions. First, the title of this article is pretty hard to justify. Jali Foday Musa Suso said (in a concert I attended long ago) that these instruments are all over Africa, and everywhere a different name. But any place English is spoken, the term "thumb piano" will be recognized, while if you call it by a name you learned in a different area you'll draw a blank.
Second, the text seems to be rather specific about a particular variant which does not match the picture -- it says 22 to 28 strips of metal while the image shoew twelve. ;Bear 07:00, 2004 Nov 13 (UTC)
--Genobeeno 19:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC) The sentence about non-use of a buzzing sound in western music is debatable, and should possibly be ommitted. Various shawms have reedy "buzzing sounds", and just about any vibration can be considered a buzzing sound.... seems a little inane to me.
- Agreed, distortion in modern electric (western) music is similarSantaduck 19:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I too think that the article should be titled "thumb piano", as that is the most universal term for the instrument in English speaking areas. Strobilus 22:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
This article should not be entitled 'thumb piano' any more than the article on the violin should be entitled lute. This article focuses on the lamellophones found in Zimbabwe, where the term 'mbira' is a problematic but acceptable generic term for these local instruments. A more general article on 'lamellophones' could include information on the marimbula, likembe, ilimba, and so on. Typically, mbira players I know find the term 'thumb piano' to be a mildly offensive diminuntive of the Western Piano, analogous to calling the piano a fat zither or something. The mbira is not found all over Africa, although lamellophones certainly are. Also, the mbira does have 22 to 28 keys, however a related Zimbabwean instrument that shares a common history has fewer, between 8 and 22. This is called nyunga nyunga or karimba. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mvumvumvumvu (talk • contribs) 15:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sections
To whoever reads this (I don't know how likely that is for now...) But anyways, I think its important to keep the focus of this page on the concept of the Mbira in general. There are Mbira from all ofer Africa and several similar instruments from other places in the world. So, maybe there should be a seperate page specifically for Zimbabwean Mbira, and maybe eventually (if that article gets too big) an article for each specific type: Mbira Dzavadzimu, Nyunga Nyunga, etc. Also there should be information about the different tunings, etc. Alex Weeks 15:14, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Also, does anyone have a good image of several different types of Mbira, to put at the top of the page? I don't have an Mbira Nyunga Nyunga, and there are Mbira from different parts of Africa as well. Perhaps just a bunch of different varieties all in one picture. Alex Weeks 17:47, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- AIf someone has any more interesting pictures to show the mbira dzavadzimu, how to hold it, or in a deze or other stuff, feel free to upload them. The one that are currently ther (that I took) work but are kind of boring. Alex Weeks 19:00, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Suggestions
Some ideas for expansions:
- Add Dumisani "Dumi" Maraire and Ephat Mujuru as some of the key exporters of Zimbabwean mbira music to the west. Also Maraire to Nyunga Nyunga section, and he may merit his own entry.
- Add other mbira types. Matepe / Sanza / and the pentatonic types from say the Congo as popularized by Konono No. 1 in their 2004/5 release "Congotronics".
- References: Add: Journal of African Music, and the recordings printed commercially by Hugh Tracey and Paul Berliner. Hugh Tracey's LP includes many reed instruments other than the mbira dza dzavadzimu, and he has classified them as pentatonic and hexatonic varieities.
- Westerners: Add western ethnomusicologists Paul Berliner, Hugh Tracey, and his son Andrew Tracey. Also add Erica Azim and her mbira.org website, as the westerner perhaps best known for immersing herself in the art of mbira dza dza vadzimu.
- Current musicians: Name some well-known mbira musicians. Some Zimbabwean names: Cosmas, Beauler, Kwenda, Chiweshe, but should also list non-Zimbabweans of other varieties of mbira. Also mbira-inspired musicians such as Thomas Mapfumo and Oliver Mutukudzi.
- Mbira Dza Dzavadzimu: Note more information on typical musical structure, such as 12/8 "four-phrase" structure, and the 1-beat-apart interlocking of kushaura & kutsinhira, with the possibility for polyrhythms (4/4 locked with 3/4 within 12/8), which is different than many other african musical forms. Also more information on singing. Hosho is not explained as maranka gourd with hota (traditional) or other seeds of convenience (popcorn).
- Historical nature of music: for example, use in ancestor ceremonies drives the preservation of ancient forms of the traditional songs (name a list of songs for known types of reed instruments). Archaeological evidence should be cited (e.g. great zimbabwe).
- Mbira Dza Dzavadzimu in the West: Note the "hot spots" of activity (Colorado and the NorthWest and others). Also briefly note the evolution of marimba music based on zimbabwean mbira (both nyunga nyunga and dza dzavadzimu). Also note zimfest and noteworth western mbira/marimba bands.
- Noteworthy makers of mbira, past and present, both African and even Western. Also info on tuning and manufacturing materials and techniques.
- Overall, the entry is heavily skewed toward Zimbabwean mbira dzadzavadzimu and nyunga nyunga (as these are perhaps the most dispersed into the west, and the former is among the most complex), but it would be nice to expand to cover other reed instruments.
Santaduck 00:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Tuning
- Began to make some corrections in tuning. For example:
- Gandanga is not a minor tuning. Listen to most gandanga songs, they will sound major. However if you play a nyamaropa 'major' song, it may sound like a minor on gandanga.
- Major vs. Minor doesn't explain it all-- for example Taireva is mixolydian, not a straight major mode. Other modes also describe playing, for example, Marenje (gandanga) on a nyamaropa.
- Relative minor: previous text read that switching instruments might make the song jump to a relative minor, which is false. Relative minor is a very specific thing. Nhemamusasa might be 'major' on one nyamaropa, and sound minor on one gandanga, but although it's minor, that doesn't make the latter minor the exact relative major of the first instrument-- it's simply another minor key, not the relative minor of that major. Removed this text relating to relative minor
- Nonstandard tunings: There has been some standardization in the west, although if you listen to tunings, even the relative pitches are not really comparable to the western concept (tetrachords, etc.). Berliner noted frequencies in his book, as do other sources. Calling Nyamaropa songs "major" requires a huge qualification, and this article does not yet have an accurate explanation.
Santaduck 19:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Definition
The article quotes several names of different types of lamellophones. These are not Mbiras. There should be a general article for "lamellophone". Mbira is not the genaral term for this class of instrument but a special type from Zimbabwe. Hugh Tracy once suggested the term "Mbira" as a general term, but nowadays ethnomusicologists use the neutral "lamellophone" as the general term.
[edit] Erroneous cross-reference re-direct from mbila.
Mbila is a xylophone-like instrument, of Mozambique. Dogru144 12:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- The mbira is a thumb piano, originating in Zimbabwe. It is played with the thumbs.
The mbila is a xylophone-like instrument, indigenous to the Chopi people of Inhambe Province, Mozambique. It is played with mallets. See Mbila (musical instrument).
An editor has erroneously redirected mbila to mbira. Dogru144 14:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mhondoro/Chaminuka
- There is a reference to "Mhondoro or Great Spirit Mediums, Chaminuka" as being the originator of the Mbira, several thousand years ago. Is this a verifiable occurrence, or a belief? If it is a belief, it should be stated as such. I have not head of this before reading it here. Alex Weeks 00:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
- Update: I'm removing the reference, as I haven't been able to verify it. Alex Weeks 02:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merge
- For discussion on merging Mbira with Marímbula, see the discussion on the Marímbula talk page here. --Santaduck 22:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New article at thumb piano
This article is only about the instrument in Zimbabwe, and there is no general article about this African musical instrument. To adress the bias I have starte a stub at thumb piano (which previously redirected here). --Ezeu (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
