Talk:Malta Convoys

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Contents 1 WPMILHIST Assessment 2 The last edit. 3 Recent changes 4 Recent changes (2) 5 New map 6 Change to table?

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

A beautiful start, lengthy, with a nice picture at the top. But overall this looks more like a list than a fully developed article. Is expansion possible? LordAmeth 00:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, expansion is possible, but the intention was to provide an overview with links to detailed articles. Folks at 137 21:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The last edit.

Done by me. I was logged out automatically when I took a break and fell asleep.

As to the edit: the information is solid, though incomplete. (Ship detail is almost entirely for the British side.)

However, there were many style problems. Much of the narrative was in present tense, while some was in past tense. There were inconsistencies in format and usage, especially links. Also a few typographical errors. Some phrasing was clumsy or wordy.

--Rich Rostrom (Talk) 17:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent changes

I reverted some of the recent style changes, but not substance. Before I get thumped, here's my reasoning.

1. Removed "garrison" from intro para. The supplies were needed to sustain the civilian Maltese population and naval base, not just the garrison.
2. Spellings: the article concerns an almost wholly British topic and it was originally written with British spellings - it seems appropriate that these should remain. (See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English)
3. Alterations to the heading structure meant that nearly all the "action" was under "Background" - not sensible, IMO. The Background section is intended to set the scene, the years group together events.
4. A number of links were removed. No problem, if there remains a link, somewhere.

Please discuss before reverting this. BTW, the grammatical fixes were long overdue. Thanks. Folks at 137 15:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent changes (2)

I apologise. I should have stated my reasons for the changes and deletions that I did. No offence meant. My points:

1. The background to Mussolini's declaration of war isn't relevant here, IMO - it's enough that war was declared. Since this article is intended as a summary for the Malta Convoys, I argue that detail that's not directly relevant is minimised.
2. I fixed the link to the Carlo Bergamini article (which I think needs some expansion for an important person).
3. I hadn't heard of the proposal to invade Malta at an early date but it is relevant. Is there a source for this?
4. Most of the other changes are rephrasing to make the English more idiomatic and easier to read. (Not a criticism - my Italian is non-existant.)

Folks at 137 17:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Folks at 137. Thanks for your explanations. Allow me these answers:

1. I believe the mistake of Mussolini is relevant. It is the initial reason of the entrance of Italy in WWII and without this mistake there would have not been "Malta Convoys". Anyway, it is not relevant to the article even the reference to the "routing" of the Italians in December 1940, don't you believe?
2. I agree with the second point.
3. Source: Di Cirella, Arturo. Per l'onore dei Savoia. 1943-1944: da un superstite della corazzata Roma Mursia Editore. Milano, 2003.
4. I appreciate your "cleaning service", but I believe that you use the English from Great Britain, while the one I use is from the USA (I live and work in Florida, where it is used - for example - "initially" instead of "at first"). Anyway, it is OK for me: I don't want problems...

Regards.--Brunodam 02:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Tanks for this. In response:

1. I still disagree, but, since you make the point, I'll back off.
2. Jolly good! I've done changes to allow for two more notable "Carlo Bergamini"s. Is this a common Italian name?!
3. Interesting, not heard of this. If I'm doing changes, I might alter the format (but not the content) to conform.
4. Interesting again. Two points: the text didn't read as American English (apart from the initially/ at first instance), but as translated foreign text. Secondly, I do try to standardise this article on British spellings, as it's about a European/ British topic. Certainly no disrespect intended. Folks at 137 06:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New map

The new map has possibilities, but a few thoughts:

1. it lacks a key to the colours
2. it seems a mixture of pre-war allegiances and mid-war boundaries, eg Greece is an ally but it was controlled by the axis, Vichy France and much of north Africa were effectively neutral
3. during the period of the Malta Convoys, control of the littoral changed, it would be a big improvement if this were reflected in a sequence of maps, since this had an influence on the convoys
4. there's no indication of where places are - the old map could be magnified.

Folks at 137 21:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change to table?

Can I suggest changing this article to a table based on all Mediterranean convoys? It's likely something that we're going to want eventually regardless (instead of "list of Tripoli convoys", "list of Alexandria convoys", "list of Tobruk convoys" etc.). I would suggest the following format.

Designation	Faction	Destination	Departure datesm=d	Tonnes shipped	Tonnes delivered	# of escorts	Notes
Pedestal	Allied	Malta	1942-08-099 Aug 1942	128,000[1]	47,000[2]	29	An aircraft carrier and 2 cruisers were sunk, along with other losses

I'm not sure off-hand how to handle non-supply based deliveries (planes etc.) but I'm sure we could figure something out. Oberiko (talk) 18:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)