Talk:Major submarine incidents since 2000

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Major submarine incidents since 2000 article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Military history WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (general topics): Maritime warfare task force WikiProject Ships (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ships, a project to improve all Ship-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Ship-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome. Start rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale Low rated as Low-importance on the assessment scale WikiProject Shipwrecks     (Rated Start-Class) This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Shipwrecks, an attempt to improve coverage of shipwreck-related topics. See also the parent WikiProject, WikiProject Disaster Management. If you plan to work on this article for an extended period of time, please indicate what you are doing on the Project's talk page. NB: Assessment ratings and other indicators given below are used by the Project in prioritising and managing its workload. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. ??? This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's importance scale. Shipwreck-related priority open tasks: To Do Shipwrecks Clean up typos Improve grammar Add any additions if needed Discuss desired additions Cattewater Wreck Needs expansion Done Shipwrecks Re-wrote the first paragraph Cleaned up Types of Shipwrecks it felt a bit jumbled Cattewater Wreck Started the article

[edit] Not Surfacing?

I noticed an inconsistency on this page - at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_%28SSN-711%29 and other places it says the sub was not surfaceing as earlier CNN reports said. Perhaps this reference here should be fixed? - --Lake Conrad (t) 10 Feb 2007

[edit] Only since 2000?

Why only include incidents since 2000? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 15:30, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

In the section on the USS Greeneville Collision; does the discussion of Scott Waddle's book display excessive POV?

---

Modified Dolphin, two civilians abandoned ship (one a friend). 5-Dec-2005

[edit] Hartford grounding out of place?

The Hartford Grounding seems a bit out of place on this page. Just curious if anyone else agrees. The whole thing seems pretty minor compared to Kursk, San Francisco, or basically any of the others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.112.49.143 (talk • contribs)

I guess that depends on your POV. 9 million dollars and two naval careers is a fair amount of damage.

Should we:

• Change the parameters of the list to include incidents where there was loss of life ? in which case you exclude "The AS-28 Emergency", "USS San Francisco Grounding"...
• Add "cost" criteria to the incident - i.e. 1 human life or damage/repairs exceeding X million dollars ?
• Add some other criteria ?
• Expand it to include ALL submarine incidents since 2000 i.e. add the two other incidents involving USS Greeneville that have occured since the original ?

What does everyone else think ? Megapixie 02:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I can assure you that as far as the USN is concerned, the Hartford incident is an extremely serious one. Merely being in the wrong area for a day while underway is a serious "out of area" incident. Any collision of any kind involving a capital ship is considered serious, whether there was damage sustained or not.

Namor360 15:31, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Its great that the Navy is concerned. Incidents such as this are a big deal to them and they should be. But everytime a ship bumps into a pier, or an MS spills coffee in the wardroom doesn't need an entry on wikipedia. Let's note it on the individual ship page, just as Greeneville's Ogden and Saipan incidents are.

I think there should be a loose policy of limiting the entries on this page to things that are truly "major". I can think of about 10 things off the top my head that are along the lines of the Hartford incident and that happened after 2000. People in the Navy work very hard to operate safely, but the price of going in harms way is that minor mistakes happen and all too frequently. I feel that to have the Hartford incident on this page, almost dishonors the men of the Kursk and Ming 361 by attempting to equate the severity of the incidents.

As a separate issue, the whole long article on the Hartford is a mistake in itself. It looks to be a recopy of the original investigation report. These Navy reports always make it sound as if there are 100 untrained idiots driving the ship around instead of 100 intelligent overworked, underslept people working hard to do a difficult job under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. The Navy should write reports like this for internal use only in order to maintain its strict standards. But posting the mishap report here gives everyone not familiar with the Navy the wrong idea.

Just my two cents ...

PS "Out of Area" is serious. But, you can't be out of area if you're on the surface.