User talk:Lotlil/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2 →

Contents 1 Welcome! (We can't say that loudly enough!) 2 3RR 3 Thanks 4 Hellooo 5 Hello 6 Classical Languages of India 7 Warning 8 Re:Tagging 9 tamil font 10 Re:Escalate 11 Re 12 Re: Funny 13 Re: Move Thiruvalluvar 14 Thanks 15 Strategy 16 Frustration 17 Thank you for your edits to Sivaji. 18 Pandyas 19 AFD 20 Early Pandyan Society 21 EPS 22 Ancient Tamil Religion 23 Thanks 24 A notorious "editor gang" at work. Plz. refer to Telugu script 25 Saved the day 26 6 July DYK 27 Art.. 28 Personal attacks against you 29 July 12th DYK 30 DYK 31 Maps 32 Industry in Ancient Tamil Country 33 The DYK Medal

Welcome! (We can't say that loudly enough!)

Hello, Lotlil, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

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If you have any questions or problems, no matter what they are, leave me a message on my talk page. Or, please come to the new contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

We're so glad you're here!

3RR

Welcome & Make sure you do not violate 3 revert rule. Praveen 18:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

I don't think you have violated the 3RR rule. But I explained it so that the trolls do not take advantage of that. If you have time please read WP:CIVIL etc to acquaint yourself with wikipedia rules. In any argument do not loose your temper and attack the contributer (I know it's difficult with all the trolls around :)). You can comment on content though. If you have any questions you can contact me on either my user page or my email. Thanks. Praveen 20:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hellooo

Hellooo.. how are you? I just happened to notice this edit of yours. I also see that you've been getting very sound advice from seasoned editors here. And oh.. what do I see? You've also gone out and got yourself new tools, have you?! Wow. That was quick for a newbie. You feel like Rambo. Dont you? :D Hey.... but a word of caution. Be careful with your tool.... sometimes they can fire before you can say 'click' .. and with disastrous results. Something similar has happened in your edit that I've pointed out. The misfire coupled with a 'not so cool' edit summary has effectively left you in violation of a very important policy on WP. It is called WP:NPA. It stands for "No Personal Attacks". Folks around here take it rather seriously and as someone who's been around for sometime, my advice is that you take it seriously too. There are a few other policies and guidelines too which I recommend that you read and familiarise yourself with. Oh.. and then, there is this essay too. Essays are... well, as negotiable as it can get on WP. And as you should surely have figured out by now(intelligent as you are), I dont exactly believe in that essay ;) Happy editing. Spread more wikilove :) Thank you. :) Sarvagnya 04:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

DO NOT remove those tags on the Tamil language article. Each one of those tags has been explained at length on the talk page. Since you're new here, I urge you to read up on WP:WEASEL, WP:CITE, WP:POV etc., before you take it upon yourself to remove tags added by editors who've been here much longer and who've added those tags after careful thought. Sarvagnya 22:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I tried to get information out of you, as to why the weasel and citation tags are needed. Since that doesn't seem to be forthcoming, I assume that it was added by mistake and am going to revert them. Lotlil 14:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Hey there, do not get intimidated by the trolls here. You can comment on content instead of contributors. For eg, if someone is removing cited content, you can call it vandalism instead of vandal edit. Its not a surprise to see that you are learning new tools here faster unlike other regionalistic 'tools' :))) It might cause a heart-burn to few. Its o.k. Be bold in your edits. If you can add relevant content with references, even the seasoned trolls can not do anything. Happy editing Praveen 13:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Classical Languages of India

Sanskrit always remained classical language as per Indian constitution. Tamil has been added to the list in 2004. So your statement that Tamil is the first classical language is not correct. --Indianstar 15:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes. You are right. Tamil is the first classical language.--Indianstar 16:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Warning

With regards to your comments on Tamil language: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. - Look. I've warned you twice already though I didnt label them as such. Read up on WP:VANDAL before you start calling other people's edits vandalism as you've done here. If you continue with your personal attacks, you may be blocked from editing. Sarvagnya 18:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply. Lotlil 19:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Even a glance at the talk page will reveal why the tags have been added. Just coz you go selectively blind when you read the talk page is no reason to hassle me with your ignorance of the rules and guidelines. "Removed tags that seem to be the result of vandalism" is what you said in your edit summary and it clearly supposes vandalism by your opponents. Even branding edits which are NOT vandalism as vandalism is a personal attack. You dont have to call the editor a vandal to be in violation of WP:NPA. Now since you've branded some edits as vandalism, can you point out which one/s and can you explain how it is vandalism? You've only just landed here, so stop shooting your mouth off about policies and guidelines without even reading or understanding them. You'd be better advised to not dive headlong into these things and spend some time reading policies and observing people. Sarvagnya 23:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply.Lotlil 03:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:Tagging

Hey, sorry for not replying for so long. I went on a beach vacation. Seems like kannad pseudo-supremacists like Sarvagnya had a ball adding pointless rambling to your user page. As expected he couldn't add his POV to RFC since he can not find the citations. :) I will confirm the guidelines & if he can not present his side with in certain time, we can proceed as per guidelines. Praveen 14:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

tamil font

Hi,

Can you tell me how you had typed the tamil font. because i want some of my words in a paragraph to come in tamil and few in english how can I do that.

Example - India is my country. I want to exhibit as India (in tamil letters) is my country.

Raji.srinivas-->please tell me.

Hello: You need to download a tamil (unicode) typewriter software. I use "ekalapai", which you can google and download. Once you install and run it pressing Alt-2 in the software will set the keyboard to Unicode Tamil and pressing Alt-1 will set it back to English. In the Tamil mode, to type a Tamil word, you need to type the transliterated English equivalent on your keyboard and the text will show up in Tamil. For ex: for typing "இந்தியா is my country" you need to go to the Keyman icon hit Alt-2 and type "iwdhiyaa", then hit Alt-1 and type the rest in English. (Since we have three variations of "na" in tamil, n is ன், N is ண் and w is ந்). Enjoy! Lotlil 12:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:Escalate

I will report the single purpose account soon. Meanwhile, let's focus on the open issues in Tamil language. Only one issue is there. That is the so called "weasel terms" in Tamil's influence on Sanskrit. Some citations that I listed require JSTOR access. Some tool might think it is not verifiable since it is not accessible to every Tom, Dick & Harry; but thats not true. It is verifiable according to Wikipedia policy. Even the easily accessible "Robert Caldwell citation" is enough to support the "Tamil influence statement" with minor modification if not in totality. So I would request you to read the relevant pages (~450-490) (I have listed the link to Caldwell book in the Talk page). If you need, I will send a pdf copy of any JSTOR citation that I listed (but I will have to check with my subscription status to see if it is allowable). Praveen 18:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

BTW:I didn't know about "ekalapai"... nice information. Thanks Praveen 19:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Re

Hi, I have no problem removing the content for the time being. Also, I got reference to the fact that Tamil is the least influenced among the D languages. We can discuss how to modify the 'controversial' section. The problem seems to be from 'far greatly' words... BTW: regarding the ip of a registered user: only admins have access to it :) Praveen 13:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Funny

Thanks :)) Praveen 18:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Move Thiruvalluvar

I tried that method; but, I couldn't. I think we should get some help. :) Praveen 14:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the advice. Going by your own advice, please delete the material put in by Kannada wiki users in the articles Telugu script and Telugu language by citing the same reference. If you do not do it, I shall be compelled to doubt your integrity.Kumarrao 05:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Strategy

I have a method to the madness my friend, the stalkers are reading this, even then they cant figure it out because they are certified, e-mail me. Thanks Taprobanus 21:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Frustration

I am thoroughly convinced that Wikipedia is a highly susceptible tool for spreading falsehoods by a group(s) of people who can collude among themselves and then twist, distort and protect their articles from well-meaning Users. At the same time, they can prevent others from editing their contributions in a clever and premediated fashion. I do not regret that I lost to a bunch of fanatics and chauvanists. I only hope that Wikipedia owners, administrators and others take notice of my frustration and amend the guidelines to make Wiki more credible and authentic. Kumarrao 14:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits to Sivaji.

I have made a news box for Sivaji article editors:

User:AVTN/Sivaji

The news is in chronological order. Thank your for your contribution. ~~ AVTN ^Talk 15:37, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Pandyas

Hi. I'll take a look at the article this weekend. cheers Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 19:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The sandbox article on the early society is a very good start. I have been planning to write an article on Sangam society for a long time. Early Tamil society was the same among the three kingdoms. Do you think it is better to write about the ancient Tamil society rather than just call it Early Pandya society? A couple of comments: The lead paragraph should be expanded a little bit more. It needs to summarise the article. Please make sure that there are sufficient citations for assertive statements such as "Rice was the staple", etc. I have a book on the Early History of Tamil Nadu and 'Sangam polity which give a vivid picture of the Sangam age Tamil society. I will contribute to the article with some references and citations. Thanks Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 21:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

AFD

Have a look on this [1]. I complained ANI.Madrass Express 16:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Early Pandyan Society

Hi Lotlil. You are off to such a great start on the article Early Pandyan Society that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. Appearing on the Main Page would help bring publicity to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. Again, great job on the article. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 14:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The best thing about DYK is that, when your article hits the front page, usually about two to four editors improve the article. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

On July 2, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Early Pandyan Society, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done. Great work.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

EPS

I find it hard to believe that Aiyar were sheperds. Iyer is a class of priests and Aiyar is an alternate spelling of Iyer (Mani Shankar Aiyar, Swaminathan Aiyar). Are you sure there isnt another tamil word for that? Bakaman 22:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Tamil Religion

Hi Lotlil. You are off to such a great start on the article Ancient Tamil Religion that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. Appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Again, great job on the article. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the nice message. Actually if you'd been here 2 weeks ago, you would have noticed that the article on show now, was here then with pictures, only to be rubbished by 4 editors, (User:Sarvagnya, User:Gnanapiti, User:Nishkid64 and User:Anwar saadat).

• However User:Vimalkalyan and I are trying to make into a glorious article once again. Please stay on our side and help out. Many Thanks. Universal Hero 19:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

A notorious "editor gang" at work. Plz. refer to Telugu script

Hi there! I thought it wise, to inform you about some unfortunate developments at Telugu script over the past few days. It all started when I requested User:Winhunter for unprotection of the article Telugu script so as to remove parts, objectionable to either sides of the "Edit War."

In the light of all this several disturbing incidents, some of whose links I'm presenting for convenience sake, also took place.

The links are:

1) The page for reports, for checking User:Sarvagnya

2) Possible Sock puppetry incident as reported by me

3) 3RR violation report against me.

Incidentally, several hours before this 3RR report against me, I had requested at least 2 admins, including User:Winhunter to fully protect Telugu script, from any further unfortunate developments. Plz. see my request for full protection. Telugu script is now fully protected thanks to the efforts of User:Evilclown93.

Important Plz. read At this juncture, I'd like to bring to your notice a notorious "Editor gang" which has been plaguing painstakingly-done projects on Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and many other related articles. I request those at the helm of affairs including sys-ops/bureaucrats to fully investigate, and take necessary action against this gang's members. The names could be provided by me upon request, for obvious reasons. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 05:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Saved the day

Both the users User:Sumanth and User:Lotlil have saved the day for me and the dignity of Telugu language. There cannot be more authentic references than these five (cited above) in favour of Telugu-Kannada script. They happen to be the most authentic pieces of work from a great scholar of Dravidian languages (Krishnamurty) and a great epigraphist (Sarkar). Although I was aware of them I could not get these references and had to face the most unreasonable attacks on me. I wasted considerable amount of my valuable time pointing towards the Tables T1a and T1b (Adluri's reference) again and again but a group of persons conveniently ignored that. I visited National Museum in New Delhi and the gallery on Indian scripts there thrice. All the displays mentioned Bhattiprolu script and evolution of Telugu-Kannada script. I noticed nowhere "old Kannada" script. Unfortunately, I could not get a book relating to this information. Nor was I allowed to photograph the display charts. I mentioned this in my discussion and speculated that "old Kannada" usage was invented by some biased scholars which crept into books and websites including that of Adluri. I hope this group will stop vandalizing Telugu articles. They can certainly use "old Kannada" on the basis of three or four websites available for them but must refrain from claiming that Telugu script evolved from that of Kannada. I appeal to the administrators to unprotect Telugu script so that I can add these additinal four citations.Kumarrao 19:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

6 July DYK

On 6 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ancient Tamil Religion, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-Andrew c ^[talk] 20:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Art..

Is the mentioned in the Purandaradasa page that he composed in Sanskrit? Searching for it in someother page is not correct and out of context. The current cited page under Arts says. "He preached several moral precepts making use of familiar incidents like the postman delivering letters. It was God's gift that Purandaradasa was able to preach, in simple kannada, what is difficult even for philosophers to put across in a way which the ordinary people can understand."Dineshkannambadi 13:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, his compositions are only listed under "Kannada literature" by the other citation from Kamath. This is why I felt he may have composed only in Kannada. Normally, Dasasahitya is associated with Kannada literature. This is also confirmed in K.A.N. Sastri, History of South India... page 365 where he only discusses in context with Kannada literature. Its also well known that same Dasa's were more prolific (Not Purandaradasa) in using Tatbhava Sanskrit (naturalised) words in otherwise Kannada compositions.Dineshkannambadi 14:08, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The web page does not have an author. Thats the problem. I would hesitate to add anything without an author. The image is a cut an paste from Dvaita.org. However I do concede that all Haridasas, whether dasakuta or vyasakuta were proficient in Sanskrit at different levels.Dineshkannambadi 15:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC) ag.

Hi, I've added back the sentence "Source of inspiration to later composers like Tyagaraja" with fact tag. I need some time to provide reference. I need time to recall where I read about that and all. According to what I've read, Tyagaraja himself claimed in one of his works that he was heavily inspired by Purandara Dasa. Gnanapiti 00:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks against you

It is all immaterial; always remember we are here to contributor to the project. You have contributed so much in the last few weeks than many others have done in many eons hanging around Wikipedia. If you can get a copy of National Geographic, July 20--7 issue read the article titled The genius of swarm. It has a great reference to what we as humans do in Wikipedia. I’ve learnt a lot from you and hopefully others too may have if they are open minded. But don’t overreact to WP:SOCK comments. Even if you are a sock, as long as you don’t double vote, create consensus where there is non, and circumvent a ban, it has no bearing on any discussion. Just don’t get emotional about personal attacks, they are simply are not even worth an nano second of your such a creative wikipedia volunteering time as you have much better things to do than to react to such silliness. Just deal with as you deal with barking stray dogs, avoid and ignore! Thanks01:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Just for the record, no I'm not a sock :) Lotlil 02:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

July 12th DYK

On 12 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Agriculture in Ancient Tamil Country, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Andrew c ^[talk] 17:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 17 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Economy of Ancient Tamil Country, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 13:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Maps

Hi Lotlil. For mapmaking I start from free files such as Image:Topographic30deg N0E60.png, and then add content with Power Point. Regards. PHG 05:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Industry in Ancient Tamil Country

On 21 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Industry in Ancient Tamil Country, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 22:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The DYK Medal

		The DYK Medal
		Presented to Lotlil for a great collection of DYKs!! Looking forward to many more. -- P.K.Niyogi 22:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)