Talk:Lonnie Frisbee
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[edit] Stop including the "closeted gay" clause at the beginning
I am the documentary filmmaker who did the doc on Lonnie, and it is misleading to say that he was a "closeted gay" hippie preacher. It is better to leave that clause out and then let the homosexual inferences come at a later date. If you have questions about that, because it is seemingly more complex than simply a two word clause, please contact me privately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barkonst (talk • contribs) 16:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not censored. Please do not remove sourced content from the article. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 16:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
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- The lede would need to be reworked altogether which certainly is possible. From what I keep reading he was an amazing preacher but because he was gay he was expelled from the churches he helped create. If not in the first sentence this would certainly be in the second sentence. Benjiboi 13:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Stephen Fry's homosexuality doesn't get a mention in the lead of his article. It would be fair to say that Frisbee's closet homosexuality would be more significant in terms of his profession as a minister, but it shouldn't be used to define someone. It should be mentioned in terms of how this affected his life, personal and professional. Nicholas Perkins (T•C) 11:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- In fact I've changed the lead slightly. I wasn't able to find anything online which definitively stated that he was a closet homosexual, therefore I've added that there were suspicions (as mentioned here)Nicholas Perkins (T•C) 11:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- The lede would need to be reworked altogether which certainly is possible. From what I keep reading he was an amazing preacher but because he was gay he was expelled from the churches he helped create. If not in the first sentence this would certainly be in the second sentence. Benjiboi 13:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Sources don't support your doubts about his being both gay and closeted about it. In fact the website you link is a great documentary that states both. Benjiboi 18:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- Did he self-identify as gay, or do we have a source that says he was a closeted gay man? To me, that's the question. No doubt, Lonnie went through a great internal struggle; the question is, what do the sources say? If we have sources, we can say "his closeted homosexuality was an open secret, according to <insert biography here>," etc. Comes back to the eternal reliable sources ideal. If there are biographical sources describing him such, then it's no problem. FCYTravis (talk) 09:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sources don't support your doubts about his being both gay and closeted about it. In fact the website you link is a great documentary that states both. Benjiboi 18:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Indeed. The documentary on him quite clearly identifies him as both. Frisbee's early testimony including references to his being gay (or formerly gay) but he stopped talking about that as it made people in the church uncomfortable. Our coverage seems quite accurate actually...
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| “ | Although Lonnie's homosexuality was documented as a "bit of an open secret in the church community" and he would "party" on Saturday night then preach Sunday morning[14] many in the church were unaware. However, as time went on, certain church officials felt that his inability to overcome what the church considers sexual immorality became too big of a hindrance to his ability to minister. | ” |
Would there be any objection to replacing the phrase "being a closeted gay man" with simply "homosexuality"? That seems to be a fair way to mention his homosexuality in the opening of the article without unnecessarily simplifying a complex issue, since the rest of the article discusses the significance of his homosexuality to the rest of his life in an appropriate amount of detail. DrHouse09 (talk) 04:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually yes, the churches were more concerned with him still manifesting as a closeted gay man instead of as a repentant and "sinful" gay man excising the demon of homosexuality. If we have a sources that backs up what you want to state then we should reconcile the sources. Benjiboi 01:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I find it incredible that you are citing sources to contradict me THAT ARE MY SOURCES!! You are quoting the very words that come from MY documentary. Do you think I don't know what the subject matter is? I get the issue, but the fact remains that when you say he is a "closeted gay man" that is a blanket statement that covers his entire life. And that just isn't accurate. He entered into homosexual unions in the latter portions of his life, and that is where he got in trouble and was ostracized. What I am trying to avoid here is the appearance that he was involved in gay liaisons throughout his life and evangelistic career. That would be inaccurate. There is no proof of this, and I think that some benefit of the doubt should be given to me since I am the one who you are essentially quoting. (Again, I find it incredible that I am arguing with people who probably haven't seen the documentary in its entirety, and are quoting those sources well out of the context of where they fall in the lineage of his life.) If Wikipedia exists as an experiment in documenting the truth, do you really think it wise to give everyone an equal vote on these matters... really? I know nothing about Costa Rica. I think that if I was arguing with someone who was born, raised and wrote the definitive book on that country, I would have to defer to their knowledge. I am not opposed, obviously, to Lonnie being involved in homosexual activities. I was the one whose work made these comments in the first place.
Why not this? Why don't we take out the "closeted gay man" reference... and instead, I will tackle and properly contextualize his homosexuality. Ergo...perhaps this explains it better and can be put in a place so that instead of "closeted gay man" we have a more complexified (AND TRUTHFUL) understanding.
_______________ Lonnie's sexuality is a controversial subject. By his own admission, he was involved in homosexual liaisons before his conversion experience. After he became a Christian he believed, according to evangelical teaching at the time, that this was a thing of the past. But there is evidence that homosexual liaisons continued on occasion, especially toward the latter portion of his life. At no time did Lonnie Frisbee ever preach or believe that homosexuality was anything other than a sin. ______________
thanks 76.87.214.254 (talk) 08:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well even your sources don't concur. In fact we have sources that show he was in the gay underground at 15 and little to suggest that he wasn't a closeted gay man. Benjiboi 01:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Soundtrack deets
It may merit it's own article but the soundtrack details could be added in. here is an article delving into the soundtrack. Benjiboi 23:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Possible source
here is an overview based on the documentary. Benjiboi 23:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Possible source
another article, this one's more extensive. Benjiboi 00:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Larry Norman - Frisbee collection album
Larry Norman, release a a compilation called "Frisbee" to coincide with the documentary coming out. some details here. Benjiboi 00:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Possible source
history of the vineyard church. Benjiboi 00:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Another Greg Laurie source
here. Benjiboi 00:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Google books
28 hits here. Benjiboi 00:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Possible source
refering to John Wimber and Mother's day event. Benjiboi 00:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
