Talk:Long March

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Long March is part of the Cold War WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the Cold War on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to the people, places, things, and events, and anything else associated with the Cold War. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Long March article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (add comments)
More information about this article... Top This article has been rated as top-importance on the importance scale.

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Associated task forces (nations and regions): Chinese military history task force

WikiProject Echo has identified Long March as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Spanish language Wikipedia.

Contents 1 Distance Error 2 Eight Points of Attention 3 Introduction 4 Epoch Times External link 5 Larga Marcha on Spanish Wikipedia 6 Chang & Halliday 7 Protege or supporter 8 Size of FFA 9 Vandalism 10 User:Dariusisdaman link spam 11 Jocelyn and McEwen quote 12 Bibliography

[edit] Distance Error

• The communists escaped in circling retreat to the north which ultimately covered some 8,000 kilometers (4960 mi.) over 370 days. The route branched through some of the most difficult terrain of western China and arrived 9600-km (5952 mi.) west, then north, to Shaanxi.

What shortcut let them travel 8000 km to reach a place 9600 km west, then north? I think there was an editing problem there. -- SEWilco 04:13, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

• I wasn't experimenting. I added information from the French version.

[edit] Eight Points of Attention

There is absolutely no mention of the eight points of attention in either the Long March or the Mao Zedong article; I find this pitiful mainly because it was such a vital factor that earned the CCP peasant support. The peasants were disillusioned with the KMT and their lack of concern for the peasants, whereas the CCP's policy of the eight points of attention earned them support otherwise impossible to gain (the peasants had become very cynical)....Yet there's no mention of it here! Surely someone should correct this discrepancy. -- Natalinasmpf 21:26, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Natalinasmpf; if you are so concerned about the error, why don't you add it yourself?

Natalinasmpf, you might be interested to know that Nationalist sources consider the 8 Points to be mere propaganda. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

The following phrase seems contradictory and the second sentence in particular is confusing. Could someone who knows more about this topic than I clear it up:

The communists escaped in circling retreat to the north, which ultimately covered some 8,000 km (4,960 miles) over 370 days. The route branched through some of the most difficult terrain of western China and arrived 9,600 km (5,952 miles) west, then north, to Shaanxi.

Thanks. Gerry Lynch 10:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There are so many errors in the original post. Mao was not in the leader position when Long March started.

I have tried to correct both of these problems. Ryanjo 02:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Epoch Times External link

There was an external link to a website named Epoch Times, which gives a highly opinionated version of the rise of the Chinese Communist party and other events, using inflammatory terms such as "Steadily Accumulating Wickedness" and "Hoodlums and Social Scum Form the Ranks of the CCP". Since links from Wikipedia to highly slanted sites are discouraged[1], I have deleted it. Ryanjo 15:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Epoch Times is, of course, FaLun Gong. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Larga Marcha on Spanish Wikipedia

I am adding some content and graphics from the FA about the Long March on Spanish Wikipedia. Ryanjo 02:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chang & Halliday

I have revised some edits placed recently, referencing the Chang & Halliday book:

1. IMHO, the preponderance of opinion is that Chang & Halliday is a work of note, although the scholarship in many areas is weak. It therefore deserves mention, since it addresses the period of the Long March. Let's give our readers some credit, that they will read a range of references, and form their own opinion on Chang & Halliday.
2. The order in the "Further Reading" section is simply alphabetic, was established for this article before the Chang book was added, and therefore should remain.
3. The Chang commentary on Mao's motivation in his circuitous route to the west is one of many reasons that I personally have read. It does not deserve a line in the text. It does deserve a footnote, as do the referenced opinions of other authors.

Ryanjo 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I have commented out the lines by El C. The reference provided is to a page that is a research database (Deff - Search Service), and seems to have no abstract or access to the text of the article (which is in Swedish). If an accessible reference is available, this should be provided. See Wikipedia:Verifiability and WP:CITE. Ryanjo 02:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

1. Let's also due weight. I support Ryanjo's changes (footnoting) as a step toward that.
2. I'll see if I can find a translation online, but I'll add a different source instead for now.
3. Fair enough. It just seemed odd to see it presented on the same par as serious scholarship.

El_C 11:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for revising the edit; it works for me. Regards, Ryanjo 23:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I would urge great caution in using Jung Chang and Jon Halliday’s Mao: The Unknown Story as an unbiased source. I am deeply familiar with several of the subjects dealt with in this book, and found numerous examples of selective use of sources and the use of unverifiable sources. The short book review would be, “Anything and everything negative; nothing positive at all.” This is "scholarship" on the order of that of Sterling Seagrave, nothing more. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protege or supporter

I have to politely disagree with Ksyrie's edit, changing "proteges" to "surpporters" (which is misspelled) in the lead paragraph of the Long march article.

A protege is defined as "a person who receives support and protection from an influential patron who furthers the protege's career". The sentence states that these proteges became leaders of the future, which is indeed what occurred. A "supporter" gives aid or encouragement to a person or cause. There is a different relationship, which is more general and does not imply that the leader returns a benefit to the supporter. The use of protege adds an extra level of meaning to the sentence.

I have posted this in the discussions to see how other editors feel. Ryanjo 03:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

As Far as I know,Mao Zedong didn't rise to prominence until the Long March,so he wasn't so influential to further the protege's career at that time.--Ksyrie 10:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Size of FFA

I am correcting a recent edit on the size of the First Front Red Army at the beginning of the Long March. According to the Wikipedia article Jiangxi Soviet:

According to the Statistical Chart of the Field Army Personnel, Weaponry, Ammunition, and Supply completed by the Chinese Red Army on October 8, 1934, two days before the Long March begun, the communist Long March force was consisted of... 5 corps and the 2 columns...a total of 86,859 combatants.

Ryanjo 14:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

I think this page has been vandalised. The following line exists: "followed by Fe Ke Yu" when describing the initial breakout of the First Red Army. Gregoryhinton (talk) 23:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Dariusisdaman link spam

This user has been indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet of User:Dariusdaman - I am undoing his link spammage. John Smith's (talk) 07:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jocelyn and McEwen quote

The standard for this article is not met by the quote added by 86.158.0.115. It should be referenced, using a book citation template (see WP:CIT for examples). I will remove it after 7 days if no cite is provided. Ryanjo (talk) 18:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bibliography

I've added Whitson to the list. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I also question the inclusion of Liu Shaoqi in the list of people who marched. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)