Talk:List of World War II ships

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[edit] Scope

[edit] Moved from article

There is a preponderance of entries from the English-speaking nations. Partly this reflects the dominant actual numbers of major warships from the United States and the British Empire, but also since the entries reflect the awareness of contributors, who are most likely to be English-speaking. This is being addressed.

Note: I've transferred the start of this talk from my user talk page so that everyone can comment on the scope issue.

I see you've appended some extra info to some of the carriers in the WWII list of warships, making the point that these were US-built, RN-used, then returned to the US. All true, no argument. There are over 30 of these (known in the UK as Attacker and Ruler classes). Before you spend time on this, however, I think we need to get a consensus on the scope of the info in the list. IMHO, some info, perhaps post-war disposal, would be better in separate articles and not padding out a list. I'm also guilty. Also, why a list and not a category, apart from the need to set up articles? Happy New Year! Folks at 137 09:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

When I started this list, the idea was to have a single list of all individual ships listed alphabetically, for people to look up a ship by name. This list is getting pretty hefty, and I agree a lot of the info regarding events beyond the war are probably not in scope. I am trying to use more of the guidelines from the Ships project, thus the extra information. Additionally, the carriers are entries I made on the list of aircraft carriers, which is not limited to WWII, and I haven't taken the time to customize them for the WWII list. Part of the reason to have a list is that many ships do not have articles, and may never have articles, with the little synopsis in the list sufficient for the significance of the vessel. BTW, I'm adding this discussion to the list's talk page. Joshbaumgartner 16:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

To decide scope, perhaps we need to agree function. Joshbaumgartner (JBG herein) set up a reference list of warships engaged in WWII (correct?), linked to specific articles where available. This suggests that it's limited to ships operated by belligerents during the period they were at war, but not necessarily those operated by the armed forces, and the info allows further research elsewhere. I suggest that we limit the info to name with wiki link, operating country (UK, US, Germany, Canada, etc), type (battlecruiser, destroyer, etc), class (with link, unless a class of one), date removed from service (if during the war). Where no article exists for the ship, then the class article should give specific info. One concern is the sheer volume of warships, particularly if we include late entrants to the war with ships that played little or no part, such as, perhaps, Argentina, Brazil. Someone please correct me! Folks at 137 21:37, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Format

There's a move to improve the presentation of lists. Any comments on the format so far? The conversion is a bit time-consuming, but it can be done in stages. If there's a separate list for each letter, then the headings and toc can be retained. Folks at 137 19:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Added commissioning data, I feel that should still be included. Manxruler 19:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rating POV?

Arnoutf has assessed this list as "start" (without using the checklist!) and commented that "short scan implies UK pov in this list- this has either to be acknowledged or corrected". Not sure of the basis, since any list is liable to reflect its contributors and the Royal Navy component is, as yet, as incomplete as most others. Comments welcome. And action points. Folks at 137 23:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I really don't get what Arnoutf is talking about. Sure, the list is incomplete, but I'm working on it, and I hope others are as well. UK pov? Don't really see that. I sure don't have a UK pov. And there's nothing blocking the list from gaining more non-RN ships. And I really love it when people make judgements on issues after doing "short scans". Manxruler 00:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The country links on German ships go to post-war Germany

The links should go to Nazi Germany. How do we fix this? Manxruler 10:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

We can do it by changing the code from {{flagcountry|Germany|Nazi}} to {{flagcountry|Nazi Germany|name=Germany}}. It will result in this:  Germany. I'll fix it right away. --MoRsE 11:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

That's great, thanks a lot. Manxruler 11:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The names of the ships

We really should do something about all the "ship names" here that really don't go anywhere but to non-ship wikis. Manxruler 12:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm concentrating on getting entries, but will look thru for this problem. It's reasonably obvious when there's a possibility, but takes more time to correct the links & disambig. Folks at 137 19:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Size matters

This list is already over-size, becoming slow to load and will continue to grow. It needs to be reduced or split. The options appear to be:

1. raise the minimum displacement to a suitable number and move the non-qualifiers to a new list or lists
2. split the list by nation or axis/allied
3. split by type (ie, destroyer, cruiser, etc)
4. restrict to "active" belligerents
5. split alphabetically

I've not assessed the impact of each solution on the problem and there may be other solutions. Any views/ consensus? Folks at 137 19:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree it is too long. I would suggest splitting by type or class - make sure to include freighters as Victory and Liberty class as these were instrumental for allied victory. This list could then be a list of types; or classes employed in WWII which each have their own list article. Arnoutf 20:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should hold the Liberty ships out of this, keep the list a strictly warship one. Type splitting is definitely the way to go. That would make the list much easier to view. Removing the passive belligerents (like the Danes - the Royal Danish Navy did almost nothing in WWII, except scuttling itself in 1943) could also be an idea. Manxruler 00:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I also don't feel we should raise the minimum displacement, its about right I think. Manxruler 00:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Are separate type lists a duplication of other articles or categories? The nature of this list is alphabetic: should this be preserved? If we do split by type, then perhaps we should include the <1000 tonners: any displacement criterion is arbitrary and ships of similar purpose are currently in each list. The inclusion of Liberty and similar ships is, IMO, inadvisable: it would add too much, dilute the nature of this list and it's arguable that all merchantmen were critical to the allied cause. Folks at 137 17:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I would like to keep the alphabetic order. Yep, if we split by type should include the <1000 tonners, there are for example plenty of <1000 ton destroyers. We would have to make a list that includes all the different types of warships, minesweepers, gunboats, etc. Manxruler 19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

And all transport ships were instrumental for allied victory. Not just the Liberty and Victory ones. They weren't around in the beginning. Let's keep those out of it.Manxruler 19:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that we should split by nation and use this entry as a list of the national lists. There doesn't seem to be any reason to combine all the various national fleets in a single list and this split would make more sense than splitting by class as most naval forces during the war were centred around ships from a single national navy. --Nick Dowling 00:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to keep the alphabetical order as well, and NOT split by type. Instead, I propose that the list be split alphabetically, with "List of World War II ships A", "List of World War II ships B", "List of World War II ships C", etc. This is the manner in which many other wikiprojects handle very long lists. I also agree that the list should be limited only to combat vessels. --MChew 02:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coronel and Togo is one ship

The ship names lead to the same article. I understand the ship was first called Coronel and then renamed Togo and reclassified from auxicillary cruiser to radar control ship. Still, should ONE ship have TWO listings here? Wouldn't it be better if Coronel/Togo had one listing and it was mentioned that the ship changed name and role during the war? Manxruler 16:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)