Talk:List of Omnitrix aliens

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Contents 1 Can someone add images to this page. 1.1 Yes 1.2 No 2 Alien Force Alien Homeworlds 3 The Transylian War 4 Sourcing Enhanced Episodes 5 Plot tag 6 Where is Humongosaur? 7 Species Page 8 Article up for deletion!

[edit] Can someone add images to this page.

I have almost every alien image, by I can't choose the correct copyright tag. Can someone suggest an appropriate tag for free images. --Viznaren ^(talk) 05:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

You don't have free images, they all belong to CN, even if it's a screen capture. Ged UK (talk) 15:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...Still, ah...Nevermind...Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 17:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

There were images on here, but we took them all off because they made the artical take up too much space.Wild ste (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, they were removed for being non-free images. See the discussion here for why they were originally removed. --DarkfireTaimatsu (talk) 19:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't someone pay for them though? Or perhas, maybe REALLY good fanart? I for one believe that we should have images for each alien. (Get's beat-up.)Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 01:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

There's a Keven 11 image from the show on the List of villains in Ben 10 that survived getting eaten by a Bot. Might want to look into that. Chaoshi (talk) 20:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I saw. I say we get images of Ben (10) (15), Gwen (10) (15), Kevin (11) (16) (11 Mutant), Vilgax, Ghostfreak, Animo, Charmcaster, Hex, and Enoch. As long as all 33 of Ben's aliens.Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats not going to happen. One, you cannot constitute fair-use for that many images. Two, you do not need that many pictures. Also, he doesn't have thirty three aliens, he has had a total of thirty. Rau's Speak Page 02:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

So that's a "no" for the images? Chaoshi (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Umm... I say no. But I guess a second group photo of the additional aliens might make it. A few more editors should comment, three is never enough, it gets too biased. Rau's Speak Page 19:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

How about a pics. of the original 10, see if we can get the 10 secrets, the 10 AFs, Ben Gwen and Max in the original series, Ben Gwen and Kevin in AF, and a pic. of Kevin and Vilgax from the S2 finale? And MAYBE a pic. of the Negative 10?Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 23:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yes

I say yes. (You don't have to state your reasonings. Just yes, or no.)Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 23:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree as wellChaoshi (talk) 18:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No

[edit] Alien Force Alien Homeworlds

Ben 10 Toys just released a list of homeworld and species names for a few Alien Force Aliens from the first four toys released by Bandai.

I'm putting up the info right now Chaoshi (talk) 13:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Transylian War

In the enhanced episode of "The Return", It's revealed that the Transylians once shared a planet with another viscous alien species called the Vladats. The two species fought each other in a race war until the Transylians wiped out the Vladats with energy stolen from captive Pyronites.

Should we include this? The last time I did, it was removed. Chaoshi (talk) 18:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Well...since there is no objection... Chaoshi (talk) 17:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I OBJECT!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.51.120 (talk) 01:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, If you have TW On Demand, look under Kids>Cartoon Network> Ben 10, you will see what I'm talking about. Do it quickly though, the episode is only there for a limited time. Chaoshi (talk) 02:18, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not terribly relevant. So they had a war, it's not a big deal. We haven't even seen the opposing species. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 02:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Let us not go to Transylian, tis a silly place. - The Famous Sticky Cheese

[edit] Sourcing Enhanced Episodes

How should we do it?Chaoshi (talk) 18:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Without ever having seen one (I don't think they've aired over here yet), I don't see why we don't just cite them using the normal title with (enhanced version) attached, or something like that. Ged UK (talk) 19:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how to do that fancy episode source tag though... Chaoshi (talk) 21:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Template:Cite_episode. It's pretty self-explanatory. Anything you're not sure about leave blank, I'm sure there's plenty of other editors in here that can help :) Ged UK (talk) 21:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Phew, I'm done sourcing everything. If anyone sees anything I missed Or anything I mislabeled, change it please.

Anyway, should we take those tags that say how flawed are article is off now? Chaoshi (talk) 05:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No. The sources you added are all primary sources, and notability still has not been establishe. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 05:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plot tag

As I've said in the summaries, albeit shorter, the plot tag is unnecessary. This page isn't a blow by blow like the main Ben 10 page, which does need a trimming, it's basic description. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 02:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Its excessive plot. The plot should be balanced with real-world info, even in list pages. The whole page probably should be several cut down to only the major ones, then deleted or merged to List of characters in Ben 10 along with a lot of other needed work on all the Ben 10 articles.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Of the entire list, maybe one or two you could justify deleting (Eon, Benwolf maybe). Unlike the characters themselves, this is what you might consider one big powers and abilities list. It'd be like not bothering to list Superman's freeze breath because it's his least used power (hell if I know that for a fact, it's just an example). There's toys, game appearances, crap like that could be added, but this is still perfectly within reason per SPINOFF. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 02:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Powers/abilities lists fail WP:FICT and almost always are deleted if taken to AfD. Powers should be mentioned in the specific character article(s) whose powers they are. All of this could be much more briefly stated in Ben's article. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 05:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

It also applies to characters outside of Ben, much like Superman's does. Furthermore, Ben doesn't have an article, he has a section. This would be longer than his section and probably the others, even with trimming. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 05:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Its still excessive. It would be more appropriate for a Ben 10 wiki/wikia. Here, a short summary of what they are, and mention as needed in the episode summaries (if there are any) is more than enough. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 06:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

For thirty some-odd aliens, I'd say this does summarizing that fairly well. Admittedly the planet/species info could be reduced to simple name and rank status (so and so of so), but that wouldn't eliminate the need for a page. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The question is, is there any need to list the aliens individually at all. Do they have any real-world notability? Are they more than just a plot device and a power used by characters in the series. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 07:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Real-world notability isn't the only consideration. They contribute significantly to the understanding of the topic. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 08:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No, they don't. People unfamiliar with the series do not need a list of every last alien in the series, just an overview of the concept. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

People unfamiliar with the series won't understand otherwise. The powers are more or less set, so giving an overview won't give readers any perspective. They'll skim through the episode summaries wondering who half of the people named are. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 23:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't the entries just be trimmed down to two sentences each and merged if they're that important? From the standpoint of understanding the episode list, I can see why having quick descriptions wouldn't be too bad. But knowing every little detail about their appearances, home planets, general species, powers, weaknesses, and everything else seems a bit much. Just the name and basic power(s) should be all that is necessary. TTN (talk) 23:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

While I agree with trimming, I don't agree with your arbitrary numbers. There is no reason to omit useful details for the sake of stuffing the info into the tightest space possible. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm technically really not even talking about trimming. I'm just talking about dumping all of the cruft and going with the basics. Arbitrary or not, I doubt that'll leave much more than two or three sentences. Even if its more than that, if the two character lists are trimmed and purged of extremely minor characters and one shots, these can still probably fit fairly easily without" breaking" anything. Wasn't the outcome of the AfD to merge this to the list anyways? The name was changed and a little bit of content was moved, but it's still the same article. TTN (talk) 00:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It is still trimming, no matter what you want to call it. And it will still take more than two or three sentences regardless if readers are to have an idea of what each character is and does. The AfD was a while ago when this page had the entirety of the OMnitrix info on it, which was split out and reduced to a simple character list. Still an acceptable spinout. If the character lists are trimmed, it may just fit, but not as a useless two-line description. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Using "Diamondhead is a being composed of an extremely durable crystal that protects it from physical damage, though it it susceptible to sonic vibrations. He can alter his own physiology, allowing him to fashion weapons, fire projectile crystal shards, and even regrow lost limbs." as an example, how much more needs to be added to fully understand it? As someone unfamiliar with the series, that, along with the main image is seemingly decent enough to allow me to have a basic enough understanding of it. Add one or two more if necessary, and that'd still be fine. TTN (talk) 00:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Your minimalist approach forgoes several of the important details. It's unnecessary anyway, s there is no reason to cram it into the smallest space possible. A couple of paragraphs is much better than a single, run-on one. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

What exactly is missing? That was the point of the example. What details are important enough that they allow the reader to understand the alien and the series itself more thoroughly? The name of the species and planet could possibly be added, but everything else is just unnecessary to actually understand the creature, which is the point of the article. Anything more than that belongs on another wiki, Also, arbitrarily designating multiple paragraphs of information just to be overly detailed isn't really any more productive than my approach. TTN (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say it had to be a couple paragraphs, I said it's better to use two paragraphs than to chop away until you're left with a single paragraph missing a bunch of details. As the Alien Force ones demonstrate, when there's not much to be said it can be quite compact. That's not the case for the established ones. As for what you missed in your example, there's the crystal growing and reflecting lasers, for starters. As for other wikis, they're only good when they exist in some stable form. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm talking about important details to help understand the topic, not extra details that don't really add to anything. Those two can be shoved in there easily anyways. This isn't about having a paragraph for the sake of having a paragraph. It's just that the important details necessary to understand the topic are rather slim. The rest of the information is just overall cruft that only a fan would end up needing. TTN (talk) 13:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where is Humongosaur?

Someone deleted Humongosaur and all his information. -Sonic&Mario Kid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.97.140 (talk) 15:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

No, he's in the Alien Force section where he's always been. Ged UK (talk) 16:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yup. Take a closer look SAMK. Skeletal_SLJCOAAATR_Soul_Striker_of_Vengence (talk) 15:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Species Page

Why have all links to the species page been removed? It needs to be linked to so that it's not considered an orphaned page. Sincerely, DanMat6288 (talk) 12:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It's too fancrufty, and has been redirected. If the character is an Omnitrix alien, they can link to an omnitrix section. If not, describe them in their own section. The species list will never fly. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article up for deletion!

omg! someone has put this article up for deletion, we need to discuss how to fix the article or it will be deleted!--Lerdthenerd (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what else to do...

We trimmed the articles, we put up references, what else do they want? Chaoshi (talk) 13:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, most of the references are to the show itself or site closely linked to it (eg Bandai), the reference template does talk about reliable third party references, and certainly more of those would improve the article, regardless of the deletion debate. With regard to the deletion, currently the voting is solidly towards 'Keep', including people that haven't contributed to the article. Ged UK (talk) 15:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

So.. we're looking okay?

BTW, where is this debate taking place? Chaoshi (talk) 16:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Here. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)