Talk:List of London railway stations
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Can we have a clarification of which definition of "London" is being used - is this the travelcard zone, the "London Connections" rail map (either of these two is more likely to be thought of as London from a rail POV) or the GLA boundaries?
I think this is as likely a a clarification of which definition of "London" is being used. North of the River and inside the A406?
I really cannot believe it when, in order to contain an area in which to consider railways, we are to expect a line drawn by a river and a road to be the perimeter! Most Londoners travelling by suburban trains would ignore all non-railway definitions, and use instead the way the railways themselves consider the definition of a London suburban train service. That would certainly include a huge amount of South London, and would probably reach out into most of the perepheral counties. It makes no sense at all to limit the stations to those in London Boroughs for example, as is done here, since a good many of them are simply part of a suburban service. As an example, the Shepperton branch out of Waterloo has six stations in its short length. By the criteria being adopted here, the first two station are in London, the last four are not. It is part of the anxiety to explain where places are, I believe: so Fulwell and Hampton railway stations is in (they're in the Borough of Richmond), but Sunbury and Shepperton railway stations (in a vague area called Spelthorne according to each individual article) are not - yet all are connected by the branch line - in railway terms a much more useful designation. Peter Shearan 17:58, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Limits of London
I think a useful definition for London railways at this stage would be those covered by the London travel card zones, with a few extensions (eg termini one stop beyond, or normal travelling loops). Possibly the M25 if appropriate.
There are somewhat more closed stations than those given. Jackiespeel 17:01, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
During my last year as a postgrad student (season 1999/2000), I traversed all Underground, Mainline, DLR and Tramlink routes within the M25. For that reason I wasn't tempted to go beyond Rickmansworth on the Met :)
194.80.106.135 10:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Extra closed stations
I have added a number of additional closed stations to the list based upon checks with Victorian and Edwardian railway maps. There may well be more! DavidCane 01:26, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
There are *definitely* many more closed stations (and several books on the subject). Jackiespeel 19:06, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Table mess
The Closed stations table looks very confused:
1). Most stations closed well before the introduction of the travelcard farezones. The table just leaves an ugly blank there - maybe a N/A would work best?
2). Some of the "replace by" entries are weird. Saying that Holborn Viaduct was replaced by City Thameslink is clear - one closed and the other opened almost overnight. Saying that a railway line closed in the 1940s was "replaced" because a DLR service opened in the neighbourhood fifty years later is a very different thing. Also often a station is shut down because improvements to a neighbouring existing station have enhanced its capacity - not really a "this station replaced that one" scenario. Can we limited "replaced by" to explicit replacement stations?
Timrollpickering 15:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- Also the "local authority" section is meaningless - a lot of stations closed before the 1965 reorganisation and some before the late 1880s. A placename for the area should suffice. Timrollpickering 15:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Split
It is a rather long list and so should be split. Maybe reasons similar to List of closed railway stations in Britain's split. Simply south 20:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, I don't see anything to split here. --Voyager 11:14, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] To add
- Heathrow Airport railway station
- Stamford Hill railway station
- Banstead railway station
- Kempton Park railway station
(On NR entries and exits list as Greater London)
Kempton Park is as Greater London by NR and it is encircled by TfL bus routes but TfL's Journey Planner has trouble finding it.--SilasW 22:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Inconsistency in Table
Setting aside the typical Wikipedia arguing about what defines a London Railway Station, the table is of London Railway Stations and so there is no need to tag either "Railway Station" or "Station" on to names but if you'all fight it out and the victor decides there is a need then try to be consistent and not use both tags. With just names and no railway/railway station the list would be more compact.SilasW 14:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Done but the doing suggests there's a need for a link operator to hide words in doubled square brackets from the text apart from using | and part repetition.--SilasW (talk) 10:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Canning Town
No longer served by Silverlink, as of December 2006. Should be removed from mainline station list, added to Underground.
194.80.106.135 10:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] About clean-up of 24 Oct 2007
My ongoing revision has cut out the much repeated "Railway station" and many "line"s. The wording of Scope lets the North Woolwich line stations to be cut (to go into the closed stations list) with no arguing that they might still be Silverlink's even with no trains. Quite a number of stations were out of alphabetical order. Honor Oak Park appeared as Honor Oak which was on the closed Crystal Palace High Level line. "Thousands" put in table heading. Column "line/s" should be for locating not for historic lines (eg LB&SC) which should be in the station's linked article. Although the table is physically shorter after losing "Railway station" etc it is too spaced out. Aimed for alphabetical order is as on London Connections map eg "St" always listed as though "Saint", apostrophes and spaces ignored for ordering.--SilasW 17:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Continuing clean-up
The article is indeed long, making it unwieldy to clean-up especially as it needed so much. Entries were constructed inconsistently (eg "Line" could have been current NR line (as in List of railway lines in Great Britain which I followed) or some company, maybe the current TOC or the original builder or the Grand Company which ran it from 1850 to 1923 or 1923 to 1950(?). I see no other benefit in splitting as it's a one-stop list for what it claims to be. A geographic split would make it much less usable and provoke even more squabbling than customary for WP Ry articles; an alphabetic split would hide everything failing a pointless redirecting cover article.--SilasW 22:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More (final major?) clean-up
Facts need crosschecking against stations' and lines' articles (all are linked).
Now nearly every entry has the same height. All lines are those in List of railway lines in Great Britain which are the current names. That has given an unbelievable number on Sutton & Mole Valley. Such useful bits as Sutton Loop are not in that list. So This or That or both need editing. Many are on Thameslink which some may find distasteful.
I found no name for the stretch of track on which Birkbeck sits.
CTRL v. High Speed 1-- both have WP articles and were given in some stations' articles.
Some places were cut out as being of no use in telling a reader where the station was though perhaps of comfort to the pride of the inhabitants.
Two far stations, Amersham and Rickmondsworth were on the list though two between them (C&L,C-wood) as I recall were not.
Much changes during the next month. Will Overground's arrival bring or take stations? Will it ignite fresh Wikipedia discussion?--SilasW 22:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Passenger Numbers
Missing values filled from stations' articles where some are undated, some 2004-5 and a few later. Most have 3 decimal places, a few, still to change, have 2.--SilasW 15:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC) All now to 3 places which might seem over the top given they change remarkably from year to year as methods of counting get refined, but a couple of stations do not hit 10 000. Some large uncertainties brought in at stations shared to greater or lesser degree by NR and Underground. Next revision should get all figures afresh from rail reg or whoever compiles them.--SilasW 20:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Passenger numbers differ from station articles
I looked at my hometown station Grove Park railway station, the passenger numbers on this list say 0.862 million per year, but the article on the station says 1.487 million per year, I didn't examine the sources closely but I cannot find the passenger numbers in them at a glance. Even if amounts were for different years it shouldn't fluctuate this much, one is nearly double the other. Does anyone know where the numbers come from and which is correct.
In fact other stations south of Grove Park like Elmstead Woods railway station, Chislehurst railway station and Petts Wood railway station have the same problem with this list showing an amount of about half the amount in the stations' articles. What's going on here???
I'm not checking all stations in the list but I would suspect more have this problem.
Carlwev (talk) 09:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- The Office of Rail Regulation site http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk has a page "Statistics" which links to "Station usage" where you may choose a recent reporting year. That'a where the pax #s should come from. The numbers in this list of London stations and the individual station articles can be for different years
(some station articles, rather pointlessly to my mind, give figures for more than one year). The agony of trying to bring consistency is compounded by having the figure in both this list and the stations' articles so I've not tried.--SilasW (talk) 16:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Alphabetical sub-headings in table
As the list does not have a compact table of contents allowing readers to jump to particular letters of the alphabet in the way that the List of London Underground stations does, is it necessary to have sub-headings for each letter in the table. They break-up what is already an alphabetical list and, if the table is sorted, all the sub-headings jump to the top. --DavidCane (talk) 23:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Change of some London Overground Stations to London Underground
Although many old SilverLink Metro managed stations went to London Overground management, some went to London Underground Management. These are namely all ex SilverLink Metro Stations served by the Bakerloo Line, except Willesden Junction (that is all stations from Harrow and Wealdstone to Queens Park inclusive, except Willesden Junction). Also included is Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury Park, which also went to London Underground management. Janahan (talk) 11:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
