Talk:List of Justice Society members
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Please cite the comic in which Hawkgirl is explicitly referenced as a retconned member. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.251.243 (talk • contribs)
- 1) Hawkgirl was introduced as a member in Justice Society of America v2 # 1. On Nov 1998, in the DC Comics Board, David Goyer told that DC position is that Hawkgirl was retconned into the Golden Age team at some point. We have just never seen it.
2) Superman and Batman weren't founding members as per DC Comics Encyclopedia.
3) Please, do not forget to sign your comments. —Lesfer (talk/@) 02:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
The DC Comics Encyclopedia is written from a post-COIE point of view; that is why Superman and Batman are not listed as founding members in the JSA Entry. However, they are full participants in DC Special #29, and thus should be noted as pre-COIE founding members. I acknowledge Goyer's comments on the DC boards re: Hawkgirl, but the issue still seems far from settled. Perhaps a footnote on the article page to explain the whole mess to readers?--Chris1435 6 June 2006
- So we should follow what came first, which is All Star Comics #3, right? Superman and Batman are not full participants in there. Actually they're only mentioned as honorary members. DC Special #29 may have been written before COIE, but is still a retcon. —Lesfer (talk/@) 05:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. DC Special #29 was not a retcon, but was simply a theretofore untold story; indeed the title of the story is something like the "Untold Origin of the Justice Society." It explains how Superman and Batman came to be affiliated with the JSA before the events of All-Star #3, which they clearly had. The way the list is presented now, it implies their first interaction with the JSA is in All-Star #7, which is misleading. Surely there's a way to communicate all this clearly on the article page. Chris1435 06:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- So how do you explain both being mentioned as honorary members in 1940 and founding members in 1977? It looks pretty much like a retcon to me. —Lesfer (talk/@) 16:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Not all untold stories are retcons. A retcon is a retroactive CHANGE of established continuity, such as the addition of Hippolyta to the JSA in lieu of Princess Diana, or the post-COIE deletion of Superman and Batman from JSA History. On the other hand, an untold story is simply one that fills in gaps that had not been explored before. DC is currently telling a year's-worth of untold stories in 52, for instance.
Superman and Batman were known (somehow) to be quite explicitly affiliated with the JSA prior to the events of All-Star #3. The story in DC Special #29 explains how this occurred quite organically--they helped found the team, then went honorary in short order, just as the Flash did in All-Star #6. Since this story did not CHANGE established continuity, but simply cleared up a mysterious unanswered question, it should not be considered a retcon.
So, how do we move forward? Chris1435 16:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- I want to understand. You said that "Superman and Batman were known (somehow) to be quite explicitly affiliated with the JSA prior to the events of All-Star #3." Somehow? And how is that? Later you state that they "helped found the team, then went honorary in short order". Where do we see that happening? And what "mysterious unanswered question" have DC Special #29 answered? —Lesfer (talk/@) 17:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
1. On the last page of All-Star #5, Superman and Batman are explicity said to be "honorary members" of the JSA; they are also mentioned in passing in All-Star #3. Yet prior to All-Star #7, they had never been seen with the JSA.
2. So, the question this begs--that had long been a mystery in fandom--is how Superman and Batman became affiliated with the JSA to begin with, prior to the events chronicled in All-Star #3. This was the question that went unanswered for 37 years, and was finally answered by DC Special #29. They were full participants in the founding of the team, but simply took honorary membership rather than active.
Clear? I'm sure we can come up with a concise way to communicate this on the article page; ditto with the Hawkgirl business. Perhaps one short sentence near the beginning of the list, or maybe a footnote? Chris1435 17:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Yep. Thanks for working together. Chris1435 20:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Black Adam's JSA
Shouldn't Black Adam's JSA be added to the memmbers page? Titans East is a Rogue Titans team and they are on the Teen Titans Members Page.
- Titans East and Terminator call themselves "Titans East". Black Adam's team does not have a name and would never call themselves "Justice Society of America". —Lesfer (t/c/@) 17:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wildcat (Tom Grant)
For when it invariably goes back up, the "role call" from JLofA #8 includes the Tom Grant Wildcat on the JSA roster. And it does so without tagging him as a "guest". By that he is being presented as a member, and his joining happened between JSofA #4 and JLofA #8. - J Greb 06:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- So we should just "assume" that? Just when Johns is reforming the team he just wouldn't show a new member joining? Then we simply "assume" again when concerning Geo-Force and JLA? 201.53.9.90 13:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
