Talk:List of Elseworlds publications

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Contents 1 Wizard of Oz 2 Template 3 Trivia 4 Crossovers

[edit] Wizard of Oz

Since the current link is to a disambiguation page, can someone determine if the references point more appropriately to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (the book), The Wizard of Oz (1939 film) (the most famous movie), or something else? Dpv 18:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I was thinking about creating and Elseworlds template which would hold the various titles. Probably: Template:Elseworlds. I've worked on a few Template:Alien and Template:Judge Dredd so am happy to sort it out if people thought it was a good thing. (Emperor 14:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

Not a bad idea. Could be distinctly unwieldly, though. If you could get it to work, I would advocate splitting them in the Batman/Superman/JLA/Other/(Other - Just Imagine, Annuals [for which there ought to be a page], Amalgam, etc.) but then also subsectioning them into Fiction-graft/Alternate Past/Alternate Present/Alternate Future. Could get confusing very quickly, however! ntnon (talk) 03:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Trivia is frowned upon at Wikipedia: Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles, but there are quite a lot on the Elseworlds entry. As per the instructions some of this should be moved into the main articles. The rest has an intersting function of identifying where the characters differ and where other media is referenced so what I've doen on Leatherwing is turn it into a section called "Connections" and moved some of the material out into the article. I'll be goig through and checking others over time but if you spot something like this then feel free to address it or drop a note back here for someone to take a look at it. (Emperor 13:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Crossovers

The officially "Elseworlds"-labelled crossovers need to be here, but realistically so should the rest esp. those listed here (and maybe these here, too). Probably in a separate sub-section, but they ought to be here - not least because they are Imaginary Stories/Elseworlds (except the very occasional and bizarre semi-in-continuity tale). (Plus, where should the four "Realworlds" be best put..?)

Can anyone who has it to hand confirm that Planetary/JLA: Terra Occulta is labelled as an Elseworld? ntnon (talk) 03:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Elseworlds is a specific title (which doesn't exist at the moment), not a catch all for anything non-continuity. Sure some aren't in continuity, but some are. Jurgens said he wrote Aliens/Superman as part of continuity, there were references to Batman/Predator III in the in continuity in Robin. My point is, unless it has Elseworlds on the title, or you can find DC calling it Elsewords it's original research. Duggy 1138 (talk) 11:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

True, to a point: "Imaginary Stories" is however, basically a catch all term for non-continuity stories, and "Elseworlds" are "IS" rebranded. In addition, the hypertime revisionism effectively retroactively declared all non-continuity stories as (Pseudo-)Elseworlds, so it's quite convoluted! (And as you say, some of them fit, some don't. I think Batman/Spawn was in-continuity for Spawn, but non-con for Batman; DC Vs. Marvel is in-con, since Access turned up afterwards, etc.) Perhaps a separate page of crossovers would be best, and then can be linked to, alongsise "Just Imagine"/"Amalgam", etc.? ntnon (talk) 17:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Duggy - they need to be specified that they are Elseworlds and it can't just be based on whether it is canon or not (it isn't our job to try and interpret whether they would or wouldn't be considered Elseworlds titles). Crossovers can go here: Intercompany crossovers.

I have the trade with Terra Occulta in - I'll check.

Although it shouldn't be the last resort the Comic Book DB is often a good guide to this [1] Interestingly they include the Realworlds so it might be worth tagging a section on the end unless there are objections. (Emperor (talk) 18:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC))

The trade doesn't specify but the cover shows the Elseworlds logo which clinches it. The others in the Crossing Worlds trades don't appear to be though which would make sense as Terra Occulta is clearly an alternative version of the main Wildstorm Universe. (Emperor (talk) 18:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC))

Thought so. The Planetary/Authority title isn't DCU, so wouldn't be an Elseworlds. However, although not labelled as such (since it utilises the Bleed as a Hypertime substitute to hack into other parallelts), Planetary/Batman needs to be mentioned here, because it includes Elseworlds incarnations of Batman (esp. DKR). Perhaps a separate "See also" section - Kingdom Come-Superman is on the JSA, and popped up in Superman/Batman - that deserves Elseworldian mention, surely? Likewise, two issues of Grant Morrison's JLA are called "Imaginary Story" and "ELSEWORLDS" - deserves mention. Again, can't remember if it's explicitly labelled as such, but the Hypertension Hypertime Superboy arc is an Elseworlds tale, too. ntnon (talk) 01:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Plus, the current Booster Gold might need to be mentioned in passing and The Search for Ray Palmer MUST be, since they head into the (Else)worlds in the first four issues... ntnon (talk) 02:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Imaginary Stories is a basically a catch all title. But this isn't "Imaginary Stories", it's Elseworld. You wouldn't say that we can talk about any hamburger on the "Big Mac" page because a Big Mac is just a hamberger rebranded. If you want to change the title to "List of Imaginary Stories" have a go, but I think you'll get a lot of "to quote Alan Moore 'Aren't they all.'" Duggy 1138 (talk) 04:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes once you start trying to say what is and what isn't canon you get into murky water (see my comments on Talk:Canon (fiction)). Ironically, as quite a few have been retconned into the canon as part of the 52 universes some of these no longer count as imaginary stories (except in the broadest sense). We can only go by what has been put under the imprint/brand because anything else is just speculation. (Emperor (talk) 16:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC))

Admittedly, "aren't they all?", but some are labelled as such - and Imaginary Stories is a catch-all DCU title. Fair enough, many of the IS tales are far more mundane and/or "dream-like" than the Elseworlds, but it's still the precursor. Never mind, though. :o) I hadn't actually bothered to go looking for a Intercompany crossovers page, so that will do. Ought to be linked to from here, though, and maybe even slightly annotated - not least because some of them ARE labelled "Elseworlds," and that should be noted there.

As Emperor says, some of the Elseworlds are now "Worlds" rather than "Else" because they're part of the 52, which does monkey about with all this labelling quite considerably...! ntnon (talk) 01:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily - all we are saying here is that these are the comics released under the Elseworlds brand which is easy enough to demonstrate (with some uncertainty at the start) - getting into what is or isn't currently within the accepted mainstream universe is a pain and best dealt with in-depth on DC Multiverse rather than us trying to second guess things here.

If you can get as clear a definition as that for Imaginary Stories then I'd say there would be a potential entry in it. I did find this, which might be of some help - I think that'd make a solid entry and would allow you to discuss the broader range of stories. (Emperor (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC))

Yes, I've got that book - although not to hand. But that's really the point - there are a whole swathe of Imaginary Stories that are as "Elseworldian" as Gotham By Gaslight, and (I believe) labelled as such in their respective comics. They are, indeed far more accurately called (pre)Elseworlds than, say, the Legends of the Dead Earth annuals. ISs also include the Saga(s) of the Super-Sons - the 2007 collection of which included the "Super Sons" story from the Elseworlds 80-page Giant... ntnon (talk) 09:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Then I'd suggest starting a separate entry then. (Emperor (talk) 13:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC))