Talk:Linda Ronstadt

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Contents 1 Las Vegas incident 2 Cats 3 Mexican American 4 Not Quite a Levin 5 South Africa 6 Fan-language 7 Literacy Inquiry, Not illiterate 8 Discography merge 9 Fair use rationale for Image:AdieuFalseHeart.jpg 10 Fair use rationale for Image:Evergreenv2.jpg 11 Fair use rationale for Image:LRV1AND2.jpg 12 Fair use rationale for Image:RollingStone1980.jpg 13 Fair use and now "noteworthiness issue" of photos 14 Criteria for Speedy Deletion 15 The Ronstadt IMAGE vs. her Music 16 Fair use rationale for Image:Don'tCryNowRonstadt.jpg 17 Fair use rationale for Image:Cancionesdipadre12.jpg 18 Fair use rationale for Image:Cancionesdipadre12.jpg 19 Fair use rationale for Image:Pirates-of-penzance-DVDcover.jpg 20 Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg 21 Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg 22 Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg 23 Ronstadt's Actual Sales vs RIAA Certification 24 Age of Children?

[edit] Las Vegas incident

The Las Vegas incident is given about one-third of the space in the article. A bit much don't you think?

[edit] Cats

Any particular reason this article was removed from Category:Mexican American singers? She may only be half, but her oeuvre does include Spanish language recordings in traditional Mexican genres... I know ethnic categorization is touchy, but the last consensus on it I read was this one, which said regarding ethnic subcategories:"Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic"...--Rockero 07:14, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

She isn't half, though. Her father is half Mexican and half German. I think people should only be given a "something-American" label if they have a parent from that group. However, if they have less ancestry but show some kind of special identification/etc. with that group, I think it would be worth mentioning. From what you said, it sounds like she might, do you have anything where she singles her Mexican heritage out? JackO'Lantern 07:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

How about the album Canciones de mi Padre? If it isn't mentioned in the article it should be. It has the Mexican standards I'm talking about...--Rockero 10:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, her father is Mexican with a German ancestor who immigrated to Mexico. He would be a regular Mexican, Mestizo...Most Mexicans have European ancestors as well as Amerindian ones. Her Mother would be a 'White' American, so then Linda Maria would be half Mexican, although she was brought up mostly with Mexican culture (music, food, catholic upbringing, etc.). If you don't agree, google it. Thank You. --C.Kent87 06:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, based on this article [1] it does seem like her Mexican side has an influence on her, so I'll restore that cat (but not the others, however). JackO'Lantern 15:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If I could weigh in on this discussion, as a Latino with the last name Velasquez, my family and I have always considered Linda Rhonstadt a mejicana. Most definatley we always thought of her as "one of us." My mother was quite happy when she went back to her 'roots' later in her career and was found singing with the mariachis. One Latino family is a very small segment of the population, but all your splitting hairs and deciding ancestory to the 10th degree are irrelavant to us. To us, she's a Mexican-American singer who decided to sing American music for a long time and fooled around with Govenor Moonbeam. Case closed. Yanqui9 01:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Obviously Mexicans are quite mixed and may have different European heritages as well as an Amerindian heritage...I don't think "splitting hairs" is quite what this discussion is about. I consider Ronstadt a "Mejicana" as well, but that doesn't take away from the fact that her mother was Anglo (to sum it up rather widely) and her father was part German. Besides, the degrees of ancestry are of interest to some,..and they don't have to be relevant to you. Now, cased closedC.Kent87 04:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but there are plenty of Mejicans with both German and Spanish ancestry. A large contingent of Germans moved to Mejico/American SW in order to escape the slave power in the east/south. Many of those Germans were refugees from the failed 1848 revolution there and were socialists. A lot of them helped Mejico against USAmerica in the war. Another term for them was "Conjunto," firstly the musical mix of immigrants from Central Europe with more traditional Spanish sounds, resulting in such as "Mexican Polka." Are you going to say that no one is "American" unless they have an English surname? JBDay 20:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

You're excused. I never said that there aren't any Mexicans with German/other European roots...I don't think you actually read what I wrote...all that goes without saying. I actually couldn't agree with you more...Where were you going with this? C.Kent87 06:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I read what you wrote. I must have been commenting on people thinking that all Mexicans have Spanish surnames, much like a lot thinking that only English surnames are USAmerican. My post was on the thread's tendency in general, not you in specific. I see a definition clash. By the way, I only saw your reply right before I typed this, not as "net-intent" as I used to be.JBDay 18:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The dates given for Mary and Carlos' births aren't accurate based on the USA Today article of 11/04 which said Mary was 13 and Carlos was 10 or today somewhere around 15 and and 12. Wikipedia says they were born in 1983 and 1987 making them 23 and 19.

[edit] Mexican American

I noticed people changing her status to mexican-amercan, although her formative years were with her dad, he was part mexican and german , hence Ronstadt, and her mom was german and dutch , hence Copeman, to label her just Mexican American would be a descredit to her German AND mother's non-hispanic roots. (Sharkentile 20:28, 24 June 2007 (UTC)).

You also have to realize that she thinks herself to be Mexican-American and is very much into her Mexican roots...Also, many "White" people in the U.S. have American Indian ancestors, however they call themselves "White"....where is the "credit" to their Indian roots? If she calls herself Mexican-American, then nobody can discredit her from being Mexican-American. Her father had a German ancestor, Ronstadt, we know...but most Mexicans have European ancestors anyway...does that make them not Mexican? Mexico is over 75% European/Amerindian...Her father was very much Mexican. By the way, she won best Mexican-American performance in the 80's...if only people would see the real her instead of putting her in a "White, Rock and Roll" box. Linda Ronstadt is technically very much Mexican American.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFO12SBR-OI ...Check her "non Mexican American" self out. )

Linda Ronstadt -

It’s hard for me to not know that other people are not digging on the same Latin music artists that I am. And actually, there is a huge section of the world that is. It was important to me because I’d see these little Mexican-American girls trying to imitate Madonna. They’ve got to do that because it’s part of the culture. But, I also wanted them to know that there is something else. A style and a tradition in the dancing, which Madonna herself would agree with. Traditional Mexican dancing has a lot more to do with modesty and is so sexy because the skirts come down to the ankles and the eyes are lowered a lot, and every once in a while they flash up and it’s like lightning and thunder coming out of those eyes. It’s so potent. Why would anybody want to do anything else? I wanted those girls to know that they had something that really was strong and it was pure Mexican and that they should feel proud of that and they don’t have to sell it down the river to this kind of commercial thing that’s around now, no matter how artfully assembled it is.

She sounds proud of Mexican American roots to me...

How about http://www.cobblestonepub.com/resources/cob0405t.html, she's mentioned as a Mexican American or http://www.jsri.msu.edu/museum/pubs/MexAmHist/chapter20.html ...acknowledging her as a Mexican American?

[edit] Not Quite a Levin

Yes, it is that same Ronstadt family, by the way -- Alex and Zenona's daughter Sara was the first wife of Fred Ronstadt; when Sara died, he remarried Lupe Dalton, and their granddaughter is Linda. The Ronstadts have been been major players in Tucson's history since the 1880s.69.109.163.218 01:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source? The source cited says that Ronstadt is descended from this Levin guy. Mad Jack 17:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I think I found your source.[2] It appears to be reliable, so I'll remove the Levin bit (it doesn't seem important enough to add an explicit correction). Cheers, Mad Jack 20:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Jack. You mustn't get all carved up about it. ;-) 69.109.163.218 01:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC) OOoops, it appears my IP address has rolled over since yesterday... Oh well, 'tis the season for disguise. 69.109.163.218 01:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

== Literacy inquiry: ==

I was wondering if anyone else besides myself has read that when Linda was young and possibly when she began singing she was illiterate. Obviously this would be touchy and need confirmation. My best friend was a huge Linda Ronstadt fan and I read it in one of his fan magazines when I was bored since that's all there was to read. At first I thought it might have played a part in her career as she pretty much was a cover artist. But of course I realized she joined the Stony Ponies when she was in college. I can't imagine myself making this up. It never would have occured to me had I not read it.

[edit] South Africa

I just came across this:

"But even as a musical diplomat, Simon courts controversy – both he and his collaborators have technically violated the United Nations cultural boycott of South Africa, the same resolution behind the musical ban on playing Sun City. And although Simon has twice rejected offers to appear at that South African resort, Graceland features an appearance by Linda Ronstadt, who has unapologetically played there."[Emphasis added]

from the last paragraph on this site. Just wondering if it needs mention in the article. - Ozzykhan 15:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it should be mentioned in the article. I had actually added something, but someone else erased it. I will put it back.

What makes Ronstadt especially interesting in this section is that she is one of the rare music artists to be criticized by both the political left and the politcal right.

Also, here's more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_City%2C_North_West

Sun City became the subject of considerable controversy in 1985 when E Street Band guitarist Steven Van Zandt made it the focus of his music-industry activist group, Artists United Against Apartheid. Forty-nine top recording artists - including Ringo Starr and his son Zak Starkey, Bono, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Run DMC, Grandmaster Melle Mel, Duke Bootee, Afrika Bambaataa, Kurtis Blow, Big Youth, David Ruffin, Pat Benatar, Peter Gabriel, Eddie Kendrick, George Clinton, Joey Ramone, Jimmy Cliff, Daryl Hall, Darlene Love, Linton Kwesi Johnson, Bonnie Raitt, Ruben Blades, John Oates, Lou Reed, Bobby Womack, Jackson Browne, Peter Garrett, Nona Hendryx, Ray Barretto, and Kashif - collaborated on a song called "Sun City", in which they pledged they would never perform at the resort. Additionally, Simple Minds, on their double-live set album "Live in the City of Light" released in 1987, included a song called "Love Song - Sun City - Dance to the Music" in which they declare "I ain't gonna play Sun City."

Grundle2600 (talk) 21:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fan-language

This article sometimes reads a lot as it was written by fans. I'm removing/changing some of the problematic parts. I'll try to be comprehensive in my edit summaries. Feel free to discuss here any problem. --Abu badali ^(talk) 15:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to say that the work done in the article was astonishing. Almost all source asked were provided within ours! Congrats User:Sharkentile. --Abu badali ^(talk) 13:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

great, your welcome. thanks for checking ^(talk) 13:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literacy Inquiry, Not illiterate

I was wondering if anyone else besides myself has read that when Linda was young and possibly when she began singing she was illiterate. Obviously this would be touchy and need confirmation. My best friend was a huge Linda Ronstadt fan and I read it in one of his fan magazines when I was bored since that's all there was to read. At first I thought it might have played a part in her career as she pretty much was a cover artist. But of course I realized she joined the Stony Ponies when she was in college. I can't imagine myself making this up. It never would have occured to me had I not read it. I apologize I do not know how to set off the text into its own headline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.87.244 (talk • contribs)

I recall reading that her mother taught her to read before the 1st grade. So not illiterate. How can you be illiterate and read music? "Pretty much was a cover artist" most people will call this interpreter of songs like Sinatra, Elvis. She's written a couple of songs, like Elvis. I still read that she reads a lot too.Template:Sharkentile

[edit] Discography merge

This list from List of Linda Ronstadt recordings should be merged into this page for reasons of: there is significant overlap and it would benefit from being in context as per WP:MM. Maintaining two discographies in two locations strikes me as a little redundant. If the Discography grows large, moving it to its own page, Linda Ronstadt Discography, would be easy to do. dissolve^talk 18:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I've now done the latter option. Wasted Time R 23:56, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

great, I moved the link up, where it's easier to see. Sharkentile 17:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AdieuFalseHeart.jpg

This is a album cover for which the article refers

Solely to illustrate the album in question.(Sharkentile 17:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Evergreenv2.jpg

This is a album cover for which the article refers

Solely to illustrate the album in question. (Sharkentile 17:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:LRV1AND2.jpg

This is a album cover for which the article refers

Solely to illustrate the album in question. (Sharkentile 17:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RollingStone1980.jpg

This is a magazine cover for which the article refers

Solely to illustrate the magazine in question. (Sharkentile 17:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Fair use and now "noteworthiness issue" of photos

One example is the Linda Ronstadt Time magazine photo. As discussed, this is a notable image, about feminism, women in music and the future image it conveyed for women in music, as noted by the citations. This is an important image in the point of history in female music. Also one has to consider Ronstadt's stature as the most famous woman in the world in music at the time, The Time magazine is controversial for the image that it projects and one that Ronstadt still does not like. As noted Ronstadt's image at the time was just as famous as her music. So I see the thought of this photo being removed as totally arbritrary and a misunderstanding of why it is there. Think about it?? TIME magazine thought it was important publish this photo and not just write about her. Whether one thinks its important enough to publish on the encyclopedic site is left to vast interpretation and maybe a non understanding of the subject. (Sharkentile 19:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)).

This is a public encyclopedic forum and site to inform the public, non english speakers likewise need visualization, idioms are said on this site that are hard for a non english as a first language person to gist. Its been noted that the fair use rules on wiki are much stricter than copyright law, but after reading rule #8, this is subject to broad and sometimes subjective interpretation by one person. This should be a democratic forum where one person does not have the ability to interpret things their way. People do not get paid for doing what they do here or get interviewed for their position or power here, sometimes it appears to be its policing that is subject to overreaching. There are dozens of photos on Wiki that could be audited and removed for the exact same reasons that one person presents and a good internet law attorney can find a way to do this if you get on their bad side. This image coupled with a photo is important, and if this is a enclyclopedic internet forum to learn about the subject that the publication of this image is JUST AS IMPORTANT as the words telling you about the image. (Sharkentile 19:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Criteria for Speedy Deletion

Criteria for speedy deletion has not met and photos seem to be deleted immediately by someone and alternatives to deletion exist (Sharkentile 19:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)).

The following is the excuse and rationale I received when images on this site were not only tagged but immediately removed"

The photos I tagged where accidentally removed (and promptly restored) by admin Nv8200p. See this and this talks for understanding what happened. --Abu badali ^(talk) 19:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Nothing in this gave me the impression that they replaced the photos, themselves.. We replaced the photos. Keep an eye on this site, it appears that certain people seem to be overreaching in reading, tagging and demanding citaions for obvious knowledge (Sharkentile 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] The Ronstadt IMAGE vs. her Music

Its been noted and cited that her image - photos, magazine covers, and album covers were carefully tailored to present an IMAGE, visualization in the 1970's that was just as important as the music that she was singing. In fact she got a lot of criticism for this. Do people want to discuss how important her image was and those slick album covers. would it have made her as famous if there were no photos or the album covers were not as sexy and alluring. IMAGE WAS EVERYTHING WITH RONSTADT'S 70'S CAREER and photos appeared to help and show a point of reference in her career where it seems she doesn't get photographed in public anymore. anyone have a comment?(Sharkentile 19:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Don'tCryNowRonstadt.jpg

Image:Don'tCryNowRonstadt.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 04:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Cancionesdipadre12.jpg

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BetacommandBot 06:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Cancionesdipadre12.jpg

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Pirates-of-penzance-DVDcover.jpg

Image:Pirates-of-penzance-DVDcover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg

Image:RonstadtTime.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 10:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg

Image:RonstadtTime.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RonstadtTime.jpg

Image:RonstadtTime.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ronstadt's Actual Sales vs RIAA Certification

Initially when this was added to the article, I removed. It should be removed for the following reasons:

• Whereas the rest of the article is well sourced, well written, and defines the career of Ms. Ronstadt - this does not. There is nothing "unique" with RIAA vs actual sales. It applies to every US artist. Keep the article to being about the life achievements of Ms. Ronstadt.
• While it states "real" or "actual" sales, these can only be estimates, as the only Authority on US sales is Neilsen Soundscan and they have not published this detail. At best it is a fan's estimation.
• The article specicically states that Ms. Rondstadt's Record Company sought last audited certifications in 2001. Yet the albums mentioned did not reach newer certification - thus (speculation) that they were not at a level to be certified any higher.
• Living in the U.S.A was last certified 2x Platinum in 1997. Fansite suggests therefore that in the past decade that it has sold another 2 million. When you consider that some of the biggest sellers do not achieve this, it is not credible for these to be big sellers. i.e one of the biggest albums of the 90's in the US "Millennium" is now selling 10,000k per annum. Refer Best-selling albums in the United States since Nielsen SoundScan tracking began. "Thriller" is selling 130,000k p/a in the US ^[1], and this is the type of sales this album would require to get another 2 million sold since 1997. The data given is not possible, and not credible. Likewise with the 48 million sold in the US. This is a fan estimate and with the other figures mentioned, without any substance. They simply expect you to believe what they write is correct, and that RIAA certification is 70% out since 2001 (last audit).
• As part of wiki policy on living persons, any fact that is attributed to a person that is not referenced from a verified source should be removed immediately. Therefore the supposed quote from Joe Smith, former CEO of Warner & Elektra Records - should not even be in the article.
• As part of wiki policy on verifiable sources, a fan site is not considered a verifiable source. As mentioned earlier, the only official organisation that can supply such data is Neilsen Soundscan. 60.234.242.196 (talk) 22:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age of Children?

The article makes no mention of when the children were born or when she adopted them. This article, published in 2004, says the girl is 13, meaning she was born in about 1991; and this article says the girl was adopted in 1995. Her IMDB bio says they were born in 1991 and 1994. Can we get any other independent confirmation? 208.58.71.231 (talk) 13:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)