Talk:L'Anse aux Meadows

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As I understand, "L'Anse aux meadows" is a corruption od "LAbse aux meduses", meaning "Jellyfish bay".

Contents 1 Doctorates 2 "Continental North America" 3 Were Women Really Present? 4 Skalholt map 5 Expansion/Clean Up 6 Evidence 7 Reconstruction? 8 Just dating 9 The name 10 Significance 11 1960?

[edit] Doctorates

I've added "dr." in front of Anne Stine Ingstad. She was a Dr. Philos., University of Oslo, 1978, on the L'Anse aux Meadows excavations. In addition, both Anne Stine and Helge Ingstad held several honorary doctorates.

I'm also OK with dropping both "dr." titles. What's the custom on Wikipedia?

Pretty sure the WIkipedia custom is not to use the honorific title, Dr., but there is a logical way to do so. They are both linked; the writeup on them appears to neglect their having earned Ph.D. degrees. It would be logical to add it to their personal writeups if you have an appropraite reference.

Cheers - Williamborg 01:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Note that the Anne Stine Ingstad writeup indicates the doctorate by using the honorific, but does not indicate in which area she earned her degree. Helge Ingstad's writeup indicates he's a "lawyer"; perhaps (probably) his degree is the Juris Doctorate; it is extremely rare to refer to a lawyer by the honorific except in a context where it is important. Williamborg 01:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Policy at wikipedia is not to use honorifics, as they should become clear from the context. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 02:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Continental North America"

What is "the only authenticated Viking settlement in continental North America" supposed to mean? There were settlements in Greenland too, but they don't count because Greenland is an island? But Newfoundland is an island too! If we mean "the only authenticated settlement in North America outside Greenland", we should say so. Angr 07:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Were Women Really Present?

I find that the line at the bottom of The Settlement section, "Sewing and knitting tools found at the site indicate women were present at L'Anse aux Meadows", strongly indicates the presence of sexism today rather than the presence of women at the settlement 1000 years ago. Sewing and knitting tools indicate not that women HAD to be present, but merely that sewing and knitting needed to be done - maybe by women, maybe by men. Would an all-male settlement really refuse to sew or knit when needed? There has to be better archaeological evidence to support the presence of women, does anyone know of it? --MuséeRouge 14:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The sagas speak of women at least. -- Nidator 13:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Norse sagas mention that several women traveled to North America, the most prominent of which was Gudrid Thorbjarnardottir, who was born in Iceland and traveled to Greenland about the year 1000. There, she married Thorvald Ericson, but he died in a fight with natives on an exploratory expedition to Vinland, becoming the first European known to have died in North America. After that, she married Thorfinn Karlsefni and traveled with him to Vinland as part of a group of 60 men and 5 women attempting to colonize the continent. They spent three years in Vinland, probably wintering at L'Anse aux Meadows (which was more of a temporary stopping place than a real settlement) and continuing on to their final destination further south, which has not been found. While in Vinland, she had a son, Snorri, who was probably the first person born of European descent in North America. The colonization attempt failed due to native hostility, and Gudrid, Thorfinn, and Snorri retreated to Greenland and then Iceland. I should add that the sagas are actually quite accurate, and that they found L'Anse aux Meadows by following the sailing directions in the sagas. RockyMtnGuy (talk) 20:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Skalholt map

The map shows what can only be the northern part of Newfoundland and calls it "Promontorium Winlandia", exactly where the L'Anse aux Meadows Norse site was found and parallel to England! 29 July 2007. Note how the "finger" of Newfoundland (on a modern map) "points" in the direction of southern Greenland and is so depicted on the Skalholt map. 3 August 2007. Please note that the grid of the map has a mistake. It has 55°N instead of 50°N, 60 instead of 55 and so on. This mistake makes the northern tip of Newfoundland appear to be at 56°N istead of 51°N (the same error on the righthand grid has the Bristol, England parallel at 56°N instead of the actual 51°N). 25 January 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.50.250 (talk) 03:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion/Clean Up

It seems to me that this article is fairly small and lacking in specifics about the site. A lot of the text is stuff about the Sagas, which of course is relevant, but I think the article should focus on, and go into much greater detail about, L'Anse aux Meadows: the artifacts, the structural features, the overall size of the settlement, etc. If no one objects, I'll re-acquire a couple of proffesional articles about the site, and then rewrite this article. -- User:ClovisPt

OK, I went ahead and added information that seems important, removed some of the speculation about Vinland/the Sagas, etc. I also changed "Viking" to "Norse," which is debatable, but I think is a preferable term. -- User:ClovisPt

[edit] Evidence

What's some of the evidence that without a doubt proves this was a Viking settlement? 70.59.1.169 (talk) 09:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought this was fairly clear from the article; the material record at L'Anse aux Meadows is pretty much the same as the stuff found at sites in Iceland and Greenland that date to around the same time. Should this be made clearer in the article? ClovisPt (talk) 18:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed clear from the text of the article: "definitive similarities between the characteristics of structures and artifacts" However, it would be nice if the article were to contain some images illustrating this. Shinobu (talk) 10:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reconstruction?

From the images I infer that the site appears to be home to a modern reconstruction of the settlement, but the article doesn't mention it. In particular: When was it built? How accurate is it, historically? How close the the original, archaeological, settlement is it? Shinobu (talk) 10:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just dating

Stine's page says discovery was 1960. So does this page. Ingstad's says '61. Which is it? Trekphiler (talk) 08:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is that the site was surface examined in 1960 and that excavations commenced in 1961. 2 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.67.154 (talk) 14:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The name

How did this place get this Frenglish name? Aaker (talk) 00:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The original name was "L'Anse aux Meduses" meaning "Jellyfish Bay". The English corrupted this to "L'Anse aux Meadows" because the landscape has a lot of meadows. I added this information to the header, with a source that may not be original but at least is local. The interesting thing about the area is that there is a strong suspicion that Basque and English fisherman were fishing on the Grand Banks of Newfoundland long before Columbus supposedly "discovered" America, but didn't tell anyone because, well, who wants to give away where the good fishing is?RockyMtnGuy (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Should it be L'Anse or L'anse? also is the correct translation Bay or Cove? 12 February 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.231.243 (talk) 22:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

If it was a proper French noun, it would probably be capitalized "l'Anse". And the correct translation could be either Bay or Cove. However, "L'Anse aux Meadows" is not really French, it's Frenglish, so who knows what the rules are?..RockyMtnGuy (talk) 04:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Significance

..furthest.. or ..farthest..? My Oxford and Chambers English dictionaries both indicate that either word is ok. 2 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.70.35 (talk) 03:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1960?

Why did it take so long to find this sight? 168.103.223.110 (talk) 15:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

They were just mounds in a grassy field, thought to be Indian burial mounds and fortunately not messed with. See [1]. Doug Weller (talk) 18:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)