Talk:Krio language
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[edit] Proposed name change
The name "Krio" refers to both a language and an ethnic group, which are somewhat distinct concepts. (For instance, one could imagine the Krio people adopting another language but still remaining a separate group.)
Threfore, following a pattern that has been used in many other similar situations, the ethnic section was moved to a separate article, Sierra Leone Krio people. The "Krio" article, now only about the language, is being moved to Sierra Leone Krio language.
The long names are annoying, agreed; but there are many other languages with similar sounding names (Kriol, Kriolu, Kreyol, Criol, etc.). So it seems better to be verbose than to risk confusion.
Jorge Stolfi 02:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree. Long, excessively descriptive names are problematic, because nobody ever searches for them. If you want to avoid confusion, use a dab at the top. NickelShoe 04:22, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Similar sounding names to Krio, including Creole, are not in the same linguistic family. 'Creole' is a Romantic (French) derived language, and Krio is a Germanic (English) derived language. The mention of 'Creole' in the beginning of this page is misleading and false. It should be removed. Although sounding similar, they are completely different languages, and exist as branches of different linguistic trees. I agree with the second poster here, as it seems that many speaking here are lacking knowledge of the subject, and assume similar sounding names of languages in fact mark similar languages. This is false.
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- Krio (from Sierra Leone), any French Creole, as well as any language called “Krio”, “Créole”, “Criollo”, “Crioulo” or whatever are Creole languages. They are neither Germanic languages neither Romance languages. Don’t change the classification in the Infobox, please. 213.63.94.233 (talk) 09:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
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- I found a tribe in Indonesia called the Krio Dayak, after the Krio River. They seem to have a language of their own. OK, it doesn't seem to be as important as the Sierra Leone Krios; and that may be just a variant spelling (one page seems to say that it is also called Keriu language). Anyway... Jorge Stolfi 19:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
asdhklx;#d —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.97.177.217 (talk) 07:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
- Well, it wasn't me that moved the page...I don't see the point of the parentheses, personally. We don't use them to distinguish English language from English people. NickelShoe 20:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stub no more?
At what point does the "stub" marker get removed? What's the next step up? I've seen it on a number of long articles (and added it to an obviously stubby one). This article looks longer than a stub anyway... --A12n 00:34, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- At this point. I tend to be quite liberal in applying stub tags since especially in this corner of Wikipedia articles can always use some attention and expansion, but the length of this article really makes it disqualify as a stud. — mark ✎ 09:10, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- "as a stud" ... and also as a stub, for that matter — mark ✎ 12:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 'R' sound
It seems that at least in some parts of Sierra Leone the 'r' sound is uvular, i. e. exactly as in my German mother language. Deriving information from ONE single example is a bit vague; but you can check yourself: http://accent.gmu.edu featuring a woman with mother language = Krio and a sort of 'r' sound which is characteristic for German and also for (worse) German pronunciation of English :) -andy 80.129.85.22 15:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
^As a Krio person, I can vouch for the veracity of this 'r' sound suggestion. It is characteristic of the language and is in fact one of its distinctive features. JJ
The uvular 'r' is characteristic of the Krio people in Freetown who speak the language as their native tongue. The 'r' distinguishes Krios from the many more people upcountry who speak Krio as a lingua fraca and who do not have the uvular 'r'. Sorie
[edit] Historical and Political Accuracy and Political Correctness
Some of the words used by the original writer are not wrong, but have been put in a slightly insensitive frame. First of all most Africans all over the continent to no longer like to be referred to as belonging to a specific tribe and claim the same right as most people to be distinguished by ethnic and cultural groups. Tribe can be demeaning, claiming a lesser status to an ethnic group (based on an old European racist concept that all Africans are the same, but only distinguished by some sort of tribal affiliation). DNA and language studies have clearly shown huge variations, that are by far greater than the simple code variation between the Black and white skin colours, or a mere tribal affiliation.
Secondly the term pidgin is regarded as offensive by many speakers of Krios, as the writer rightly suggests, Krio is recognized as a language in its own right, so it is neither anymore Creole.
Overall Pinsker writes in Language instincts that our classifications of creole or pure and otherwise are questionable, as all languages are in a sense creole and ever evolving. See for example Academic Discussion on Creole and pidgin in Pinsker
In my (dz.research)original correction which was thereafter deleted I added into the article:
"Please note that with modern linguistic research into creole languages, descriptions such as "pidgin" are held to be offensive by some, because they claim an original "pure" language, and decline creole languages own right of validity and logic. The English Language itself for example traces its "origin" in Saxon Language, Gaelic and Latin amongst others, and all of these were permanently transient and ever evolving languages, often in line with new migrations."
Writer Jorge Stolfi misunderstood the context, claiming in the history of his recovery of his article:
del caveat about "pidgin" being "offensive to some linguists" (it is not!))"
However the point was not an attack on the linguistic use, but the common reference of pidgin as not a proper language that is in deed used to degrade the status of some languages as not being proper. My critique is therefore an African centered point that may have been phrased clumsily, but does likewise not deserve to be undermined. See some examples of discussions of this here: Pidgin In Hawaii Pidgin Dialect demands respect Debate on Pidgin in Nigeria
I also softened some of the assumptions such as many are "not" Krios, to many Krio speakers are not or choose not to identify as an ethnic Krio.
I also felt that references were missing overall, and have began to put some in, that I knew of heart.
