Talk:KC Stadium

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	KC Stadium has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
September 16, 2007 Good article nominee Listed

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Contents 1 Sad and pathetic 2 Featured Picture 3 Recent housekeeping 4 Ownership 5 Good article nomination? 6 GA Comment 7 GA on hold 8 GA passed 9 Ground upgrade

[edit] Sad and pathetic

I find the edit dated 27/09/2006 sad, pathetic and pointless:

Changing:

"The stadium is home to Hull City A.F.C. (football) and Hull FC (rugby league)"
to:
"The stadium is home to Hull FC (rugby league) and Hull City A.F.C. (football)"

is completely lame and must have been done by an 8-year old.

I'm not going to lower myself to their level by being petty enough to revert it though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.69.191.231 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 27 September 2006

[edit] Featured Picture

Please visit Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/KC_Stadium_at_night if you are interested in having the picture of the KC Stadium raised to the status of featured picture or if you think that it definitely shouldn't be featured. Thanks, ...adam... ^{(talk • contributions)} 19:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent housekeeping

Keith D and I have gone through this article over the past few days, finding sources, copyediting, making corrections, etc. There are a few more items to tackle here that I'll try to get to this week/weekend. When that's taken care of, we thought we'd try to get this reviewed for Good Article status. Doonhamer 14:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

If any one else has any further items they think needs attention then add them to the list. Keith D 15:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed this sentence; was unable to find a reference for it: Each club has priority use of the stadium at the end of the season for each sport; for instance, Hull FC receive priority during the early part of the football season, the situation being reversed at the early part of the rugby season. Doonhamer 18:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the good work on this Doonhamer. I think we should go for a GA review now. Keith D 11:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Keith. During your hols I asked Beve and Mattythewhite, regular contributors to Hull City topics, to have a look-over. They've also left feedback on my talk page. I think you're right; a bit more tweaking and we should go for the GA. Doonhamer 14:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a problem with this paragraph:

In spite of a number of obstacles during the course of the project, including Hull City A.F.C.'s receivership in 2001, the stadium complex was completed on time (in fourteen months) and on budget (at approximately GB£44 million). The stadium opened its doors on December 18, 2002.

It makes it sound as though there were problems during the construction, which isn't the case. Construction must have started in Autumn 2001 (fourteen months before it opened in December 2002), Adam Pearson's takeover of Hull City took place in March 2001 - several months earlier.

If anything, the project couldn't even begin (or move past the planning stage) while City were in financial difficulty, and it was only Pearson's takeover of the club that allowed it to go from theory to reality. In fact, as I recall it, Pearson was instrumental in drving it forward, and strongly deserves a mention (if we can source this as fact).

Beve 12:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Cheers Beve, appreciate your feedback here and on my talk page. I agree with your recommendations and changes, I'll work on the paragraph above. The info came right from the source I used at the city council website, which was a bit of a summary and a bit glossy. Doonhamer 14:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I've edited that part to reflect the source more accurately, that Hull City's receivership occured just after planning permission was granted. I think that addresses Beve's concern. Doonhamer 20:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership

The article seems to indicate that the stadium is the soccer teams and the football team is the tennants. If anything it is the other way round. Also there should be a much bigger mention of test match football at the ground in the past and in the upcoming test series against the Kiwis. Londo06 20:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm interested in learning how you get this impression. The lead paragraphs state clearly:

“

The stadium is owned by Hull City Council and operated by the Stadium Management Company (SMC)...The stadium accommodates fans of its two tenants, association football club Hull City A.F.C., which moved there from Boothferry Park, and rugby league football club Hull FC, relocated from the Boulevard.

”

How does this indicate to you that "the stadium is the soccer teams and the football team is the tennants." ? Doonhamer 22:04, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

During their (FC) stint at the KC Stadium. The stadium is regularly seen on Sky Sports as a rugby league ground, it would seem prudent to name FC as the first tenant, Hull City as the 2nd tenant. Londo06 22:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't really answer the question of how you thought the football club was somehow the stadium's owner (as clearly proven otherwise by the quote), and, at any rate, to state that the stadium "is regularly seen on Sky Sports as a rugby league ground" is matter of personal opinion. Does Sky Sports clearly state that "The KC Stadium is clearly a rugby ground"? Would it do so in December? The football club is listed first simply as a matter of alphabetics: Hull City Association (or Athletic) Football Club comes before Hull Football Club, and Hull City A.F.C. comes before Hull. F.C. Doonhamer 22:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article nomination?

I added a few sentences to the Concerts section and tried to address Beve's recommendations. I agree with Keith D. Ready to nominate? Doonhamer 20:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Comment

Although I do not intend to be the reviewer, I think you guys need to consider moving this to Kingston Communications Stadium. The current location does not fit well with WP:NAME and being from the states, I was under the impression that this article would be about a stadium in Kansas City, Missouri. A move would solve any WP:D issues. Juan Miguel Fangio| ►Chat  04:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. I've thought the same myself, and have actually tried to move the page as you say at one point. However, I was prevented from doing so because that move is protected, for some reason. I'm not sure how to check why that is. Doonhamer 05:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It is known as the KC Stadium to sports fans and also for concerts. What would be printed on the tickets is more relevant than what might be in an insurance document. A redirect would suffice if possible. Londo06 08:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Kingston Communications Stadium is already a redirect to KC Stadium. Keith D 09:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

After checking the MOS section on common names, I'm agreeing with Londo06 and Keith D that KC Stadium seems more appropriate, although my personal preference is for the full name. Jmfangio also makes a valid point, however: in terms of raw numbers, there are likely more users of the English Wikipedia who would assume the term refers to the stadium where the Kansas City Chiefs play, rather than where Hull FC do. There's been at least one edit where that seemed to be the case. :o) However, I'm content to leave things the way they are now. Doonhamer 15:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

Generally looking good, but two or three minor issues to clear up before the article passes:

• Adding up figures in the list of stands gives 25,000, inconsistent with the capacity of 25,404 stated elsewhere.
  • Not sure what to do about this one; the inconsistency also exists in the official website's facts and figures page where the data came from. Will research. Doonhamer 14:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
    • I think that the additional 404 are covered by the 28 corporate boxes but cannot locate a reference to back it up. Keith D 14:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Would a personal communication between an editor and stadium staff clarifying the matter count as a reliable source if it were posted online and accessible? Doonhamer 15:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
        • May be worth a question on the reviewer's talk page asking what to do about the inconsistency in the source. Keith D 16:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
          • I've left him a note. Doonhamer 16:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

As there is evidently no easy answer to this using the available sources, I won't view it as a obstacle to passing GA. It'd be nice to have a confirmed reason, but not absolutely essential. Oldelpaso 18:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I simply assumed that the total capacity was an accurate figure whereas the figures given for each stand were approximate. Beve 22:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• The article asserts that "the KC Stadium was judged to have the best access and facilities in the country", but the reference mentions "comfort, services and view", a subtle but important difference.
  • Y Done Rewritten to reflect source's statements. Doonhamer 14:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
• The references do not support the assertion that Hull City "regularly attracted some of the best attendances outside the Premiership" - one gives data for Division Three and the other gives division averages only.
  • This was a bit convoluted I suppose; one reference shows that Hull City's average attendance in Div 3 was ~16,000; the other shows that in recent years, only Premiership clubs and some Championship sides approach that figure. Will rewrite for clarity.
    • Y Done Doonhamer 14:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Apart from this, the article is generally well-written, is well referenced and gives a good degree of comprehensiveness. The images are suitably licensed and there is no evidence of edit-warring. If the issued listed above are resolved, the nomination will be passed.

Other suggested improvements which do not affect the outcome of the GA nomination but should be considered if a featured article nomination is intended:

• The two single-paragraph subsections in Other sporting events should probably be merged.
  • Y Done Doonhamer 14:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
• What is the record attendance at the stadium?
  • Futuristic. :o) Probably the upcoming match between Hull City and Chelsea in the League Cup. Will try to find the current record.
    • I found this, seems curent, but not sure it counts as a reliable source, and it only mentions football, not rugby or any other event. Comments? Doonhamer 15:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Actually, I see that we already use that figure and source in the Other Sporting Events section. Doonhamer 15:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
        • I have put the current record for Hull City & Hull FC in their section, indicated league match for City as I would expect a sell out for the Chelsea match, for security purposes depends on them allowing a capacity crowd. Keith D 15:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
          • The record attendance was early in the stadium's existence, for an England U21's game where there was no segregation. After that, it was for the game against Leeds last season, I think (it was announced over the tannoy). Beve 22:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• While of sufficient standard for GA, some areas of the prose could be polished further. Two such examples:
  • The idea of a new stadium for Kingston upon Hull first surfaced in 1997 - "surfaced" implies the idea was beneath something.
    • Y Done Doonhamer 14:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Hull City beat Sunderland A.F.C. 1–0 in a friendly match to mark the occasion. Steve Melton scored the goal in this victory - we are already told that Hull won, so "in this victory" is redundant.
    • Y Done Doonhamer 14:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
• What is the point of having a former names field in the infobox if there has never been a name change? Y Done Keith D 14:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Oldelpaso 12:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking time to do the review. Will see if we can work on the points raised. Keith D 13:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; thanks much. Doonhamer 14:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed

While the stands/ground capacity question remains unconfirmed, the other points have been fixed, so I have no qualms about passing the nomination. Oldelpaso 18:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again very much for the review and the recommendations to improve the article. Doonhamer 19:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. Keith D 19:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ground upgrade

Alot of talk from the Hull FC fans that there will be a 2nd tier added to the East Stand. Hull City given heroes reception With further sources worth working in I reckon.Londo06 17:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)