Talk:Kansas City (R&B song)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the assessment scale.		This Beatles-related article is within the scope of The Beatles WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve and expand Wikipedia coverage of The Beatles, Apple Records, George Martin, Brian Epstein/NEMS, and related topics. You are more than welcome to join the project and/or contribute to discussion.	This article has not been rated on the importance scale.
		Suggested article edit guidelines: New additions to articles should be attributed to reliable and verifiable sources, using inline citations per the Project's style guide. The system is very easy to use so please do try to help by following this guideline. Most articles should be written in British English. Some terms may be different from - or non-existent in - American English, and some spellings may differ. For more information, see American and British English differences. If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Assessment Department for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles/Assessment. This article is also within the scope of WikiProject Songs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to songs on Wikipedia. A Song Infobox has been requested for this article. Please format it according to the guidelines.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
The Beatles To-do: You can HELP!: Open tasks for WikiProject The Beatles. Edit or discuss these tasks. To Expand: Apple Records See also: Adopt an article To Clean up: Apple Records discography (wikify). The Beatles' 1965 USA Tour. Italian Cover Versions of Beatles' songs To Merge: To Create: Phil McDonald (engineer). Lennon/McCartney songs: I'll Keep You Satisfied (produced by George Martin), From A Window. George Martin produced Billy J. Kramer song: Magic Carpet (song). Bag o'Nails, where Paul met Linda. Articles on each Beatle tour (Category:The Beatles tours). The Lost Lennon Tapes, notable radio series which has spawned many bootlegs. Full list & instructions. Lists to complete: Wanted Pics/Graphics: Jimmy Nicol, Alistair Taylor, Ivan Vaughan, Tittenhurst Park, Tony Barrow. Project Discussions: The Beatles history, Individual songs vs longer album articles, Beatle wives, Merge/split proposals Project: Add {{WPBeatles}} to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members, and coordinate tasks. Enter articles classed as stubs into this list (under To Expand) and also list articles needing cleaning and other work here. If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list and add your achievement to the project log.

An {{Infobox Single}}, {{Infobox Song}} or {{Infobox Standard}} has been requested for this article. Please select the appropriate infobox and format it according to the guidelines.

An infobox was requested at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles/List_of_notable_songs/8 for the 1959 Wilbert Harrison recording of "Kansas City".

[edit] Changes regarding lyrics

I was under the impression that this song is an entirely different song from the Fats Domino version (as per Kansas City (song)), but this begs to differ. Comments? —Gordon P. Hemsley→✉ 13:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I've heard many different versions -- but not the Fats Domino version. If I were a betting man, however, I would assume that it was the same song as the Leiber-Stoller-Littelfield version which was recorded by Littlefield as KC Loving and Wilbert Harrison as Kansas City, and was later rerecorded by Haley and the Comets. The Little Richard/Beatles song is the same tune, except with altered lyrics and the Hey Hey Hey add-on. 23skidoo 13:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the tunes are vaguely similar, but they are not the same song. That's like arguing that "Surfin' USA" is the same song as "Sweet Little Sixteen". The tune is pretty much the same, but the words are different. Or that "Bah Bah Black Sheep" is the same song as "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star". Again, same or similar tune, different words. Wahkeenah 23:03, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't the one doing the splitting on the original article, but I was under the impression that the Wilbert Harrison version had the same lyrics as the Little Richard/The Beatles version, especially because the new disambig page told me so. A quick lyrics search tells me that's not true. Plus, I just tried to sing the Wilbert Harrison lyrics over The Beatles's song, which has a much faster tempo, and while they're close at times, they're not completely the same. Are we sure that the Wilbert Harrison version was an R&B song? According to the disambig page, it actually has the same lyrics as the Fats Domino version. I'm thinking we should now separate the Wilbert Harrison version from the Little Richard/The Beatles version. (The disambig page I'm referring to, by the way, is Kansas City (song).) Thoughts? —Gordon P. Hemsley→✉ 23:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

My initial fix was to re-distinguish the songs on the disambiguation page. I don't quite see why separate articles are needed for songs that merit one or two paragraphs each, but if you're going to have one for (R & B song) you should also have one for... well, is it R & B, or is it "Pop"? That's kind of a fine line. Seems to me like the Beatles version is more like rock, actually. Wahkeenah 23:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe the way to settle this -- IMO they are the same song, only different arrangements -- is to check the songwriter credits. If both Little Richard/Beatles and Harrison/Littlefield are credited to Leiber-Stoller (or alternately to Littlefield since some sources credit him, not L/S) then that settles it that they're the same song, only with drastically different arrangements. And it's not uncommon for this to happen. Listen to Bill Haley's 1956 original version of See You Later Alligator, and then listen to the version of See You Later Alligator he recorded in 1966 for Orfeon Records. Technically they're supposed to be the same song, but they are substantially different arrangements. 23skidoo 01:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, in one of the books I have here, The Beatles' version is credited to Leiber-Stoller. I'm not sure what that means with regard to the other songs, but there you go. —Gordon P. Hemsley→✉ 01:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding to the confusion is the fact that the Tony Sheridan version (which didn't involve the Beatles but is still related because of Sheridan) appears to be a mixture of both arrangements. 23skidoo 02:48, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

Some clarification is in order. The version of "Kansas City" recorded by The Beatles on Beatles For Sale should always have been credited as a medley of Leiber & Stoller's "Kansas City" and Little Richard's (Richard Penniman's) "Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey." The omission of Little Richard's song title and writer's credit was an error. That error has since been corrected (including the restoration of money to Little Richard that was incorrectly paid to Leiber & Stoller), and all subsequent official issues of the medley have the correct credits. Pstoller 02:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is not supposed to be about the Medley. It is about the original song "Kansaa City" and to list Penniman as writer is incorrect since he is not credited on the versions recorded by Littlefield, Harrison, Haley, Fats Domino, etc. Perhaps a way to get around this in terms of creating an article on every song recorded by the Beatles, is to create a separate article on Kansas City/Hey Hey Hey. The Beatles infobox shouldn't be here at all.. there should be an infobox for the original recording of Kansas City. I've started a thread at the Beatles wikiproject page here suggesting that a separate article on the medley be created. 23skidoo 03:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beatles

It appears to me that the song has very little to do with the Beatles, other than they sang it on one of their albums, much like others mentioned on the page. However, for some reason, The Beatles are prominent in the information about this page, complete with a picture of the album. This shows a disservice to the song, and others who sang it. Furthermore, as mentioned by the article, the version of "Kansas City" by the Beatles isn't even similar lyrics, much less arrangement, so I would argue that it really shouldn't be considered the same song. Wit that said, I would argue that the Beatles infobox be removed from this page, or an infobox for all major artists that have covered this song be added to the page. As such, and in accordance with other comments on this page, I am removing it from this page about a great, non-beatles song.Jon Thompson 00:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Lack of information for other versions is not a good reason to delete info on the version by the Beatles. Also, the version by the Beatles is just that—a version—and it's performed in a medley. I don't think it's a separate song, certainly not legally and not by WP standards either. John Cardinal 09:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

As others and myself have pointed out, this article is not actually about the Beatles' version of the song, it is about the song itself, which is a classic Blues song, and _not_ a pop medley, as appears in the infobox. The copy of the article is sufficient in mentioning that the Beatles' version, without prominently displaying a picture of the album that it resides on, which incorrectly puts an emphasis on a derivative version of the song, rather than the song itself. The original song has different lyrics, different style, and different arrangement. The only thing similar between the two are the words "I'm Going to Kansas City". This issue seems to me to be rather binary- the infobox is there or not. Adding more info boxes for other versions would be silly, as there are so many versions of this song. I have two versions on my iPod from James Brown alone. If you can think of a compromise, please let me know, as I certainly cannot. Jon Thompson 18:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)