Talk:Judensau

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Should the phrase 'repulsive and dehumanizing' be NPOV'd? Kent Wang 03:21, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

The JS goal was exactly to dehumanize and instill revulsion, and it worked. Human history is full of cruel and uncomfortable events and images, and a serious encyclopedia should reflect the facts and developments, to be used as a lesson for the future, instead of hiding them or changing the epithets to "bland and tasteless" (just as extreme example). ←Humus sapiens←Talk 04:12, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

I've linked all the places in the list, however a few of them confused me: Cadolzburg, Colmar and Eberswalde, Erfurt: I thought they were town, region, but the second names are towns themselves; "Cadolzburg" doesn't appear anywhere, and Eberswalde is a town itself, but not in a region called Erfurt, it seems, suggesting it might not be that Eberswalde. Also with Vienna, Wimpfen, Vienna is obviously a city, but is this a smaller town of the same name somewhere else, in a region called "Wimpfen"? Someone who knows better can fix it up. TPK 01:46, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

They are all separate towns, not regions. - Who knows the source for the list? Please tell me on my page, we are about to fix the German article. Thanks! Jesusfreund 22:24, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The German article on this is now excellent. Some of that material needs to be brought over here, including more of the pictures, which are on Wikicommons. --Doric Loon 20:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

I don't feel the new Translation "jews' sow" is really better than what we had befor ("jewish sow"). The german term is a compund word meaning literally "jew sow", so it justifies neither the genitive nor the plural (the n is an epenthesis and bears no meaning). 84.168.224.226 20:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually the linking -n- which is so common in German compound nouns does go back to an old genitive. But I am not sure that is what is happening in this word. I suspect we have here a plural Juden as the first element, in which case the genitive is implied but you wouldn't expect it to be marked. So Jews' sow (not Jew's sow!) is correct. The depiction is, after all, of a group of jews with a sow. But you are right, the form Judensau could theoretically be constructed differently, with juden being used almost adjectivally. Then the sow herself would be Jewish. But I don't think that is what is being depicted. --Doric Loon 22:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

If I can just expand on my last comment (after clarifying my thoughts in conversation with a friend): the element Juden- can be used as the first part of a compound noun in at least two ways. One is exemplified by the word Judenkindl, used in traditional Christmas plays to refer to the murdered infants of Bethlehem. They are children who are Jews, therefore Juden- has a describing, adjectival force. The second construction is exemplified by the place-name Judenberg, near my home in the Oberpfalz. This is not a hill which is Jewish, it is a hill inhabited by Jews. Juden- therefore has a genitive force. Now the word Judensau in fact has two meanings. It can be a very offensive, antisemitic insult, and I believe this was used in the NS period quite a lot; this is morphologically the first possibility: the person addressed is referred to as a sow (quite a common German insult) and more specifically as a Jewish one. This is adjectival, as in Judenkindl. The second meaning is that intended in the title of this article. It refers to a real sow (or at least to an image of one), who belongs or pertains to a group of Jews. This is genitive, as in Judenberg. I hope that clarifies the grammar of the word. Rather an unsavory topic to have to discuss in these terms, though. --Doric Loon 21:41, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What now?

Am I thick or is the obscene contact in question suckling at the teat of the unclean sow? That's what it looks like in the sculpture and that is what the name would imply. Can't we just say that? jengod 00:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes exactly. --Doric Loon 07:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I have added "suckling and cuddling" which are the basic activities, though later depictions often go further (see the German version). Johnbod 13:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] date of shemhamephoras jpg

The image itself reads 1546. I'm confused as to the status of the object illustrated.

Best,

--Shlishke (talk) 23:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)