Talk:Jousting

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Contents 1 Also, it's about tilting= 2 This article is awful 3 Possible Expansions 4 Merge articles 5 Delisting Expansion 6 Tortoise Jousting 7 Images 8 Teams 9 Disambiguation? 10 English joust 11 External Links 12 Martial Arts Project 13 Horses 14 Training 15 The Armor 16 hi

[edit] Also, it's about tilting=

not jousting—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.203.148 (talk • contribs)

I tried to edit the dates on the article, but they were switched back. jousting was popoular and around in the 13th century, and was either preformed before the melee battle or during the melee battle proper. eventually this would evolve into duel jousting . There are alot of inaccuracies in this article as others have pointed out Take the lead from the tournament article it is much more accurate

[edit] This article is awful

And does not conform to any standard of accuracy. It will need to be completely revised to more reflect historical reality. For starters, what it's ostensibly about is TILTING, not "jousting." What are the sources for three passes and the if-they're-both-dismounted-they-set-to-with-swords? What the heck is a rondel? A rondel dagger? See Barber and Barker for starters, also Muhlberger, and Anglo's various works. It is articles like this that cause college professors (i.e., me) to mock and denigrate Wikipedia and give lousy grades to students who cite it.

Ken Mondschein 04:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

dear college professor, this article is in an early stage of development, and doesn't cite a single source. It is absolutely undisputed that Wikipedia has a large number of articles like it; you should not "denigrate" Wikipedia for that, you should rather denigrate students who do not distinguish between cited and uncited claims. Wikipedia is the perfect place to develop that critical attitude. I am adding {{unreferenced}}, agreeing that this article needs a lot of work. dab (ᛏ) 10:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

As a topic of interest to me (I know basically nothing about it), I would like to both educate myself and provide some help to wikipedia about Jousting. Since this article is in need of heavy revision, I am willing to undertake that. I must ask, first, what portions of it are incorrect - do historical inaccuracies abound, or is the writing and organization simply...bad? I suppose, a more clear question would be: is the article factually incorrect? I'll begin work on this today. -- Xiliquiern 15:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Expansions

Some ideas, which I may act on if i get a free moment, but if not, someone else can...

1. Expansion into full section on Quintain and Ring
2. Use of ladies favors, both before/during and as reward
3. Judicial uses of Joust
4. First time jousting was done? Site I found was 1066 was first recorded joust... should be checked.

That's just from a minute or two looking in between homework... Lyellin 06:04, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

some sources I just found- placing here so I can remember them, but also in case anyone else wants to check them out.

1. Boner, Christopher, Knights at Tournament, 1988
2. Barber, Richard & Barker, Juliet, Tournaments, 1989
3. Clephan, R.Coltman, The Medieval Tournament, 1919
4. Coss, Peter, The Knight in Medieval England 1000-1400, 1993
5. Gies, Frances, The Knight in History, 1984
6. Hopkins, Andrea, Knights, 1990
7. Turnbull, Stephen, The Book of the Medieval Knight, 1985

Lyellin 06:06, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Merge articles

I propose Jousting and Tournament (medieval) be merged. WAS 4.250 18:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I would disagree. Medieval tournaments were much more than jousting. There can be two articles. Stbalbach 18:11, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Delisting Expansion

It looks like this article was significantly expanded since it was listed on Requests for expansion in August of 2004. Although it isn't clear whether all the above possibilities for expansion were followed up on, I think that it is unlikely that anyone will notice it so far down on the requests page (actually, on a secondary page). I am removing the listing. Please re-list it under the current date, if you feel it is appropriate. --DavidConrad 01:50, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tortoise Jousting

In the jousting article, I noticed that there was no mention of tortoise or turtle jousting. Though many do not know about it, tortoise and turtle jousting is one of the main sports in Tonga. Tortoise jousting is just like regular jousting except for the fact that the Tongan warriors rode tortoises instead of horses, since horses were not avalible in Tonga.

I am an expert in tortoise jousting, I got a doctorate in it and have won many a tortoise jousting tournaments on the back of my faithful Sally, in the wondeful country of Tonga. I teach a tortoise jousting class in the University of the Tonga and am the head of the tortoise deparment for all of Tonga.

Tortoise jousting was, and still remains a major jousting event and the fact that this site has nothing about it makes me violently ill. Tortoise jousting is the pride of Tonga and all of the Tongan people and it is a blatant form of discrimination against the great people of Tonga to not mention their beloved sportoise. If I had majored in law instead of tortoise jousting I would sue you and make sure you never neglect the awesome power of tortoise jousting again.

-Walter

Almost took that seriously for about 5 seconds. That was pretty freaking hilarious! Indeed, most politically correct wikipedians would probably say something frighteningly similar to this if there were indeed something so noble (and time-consuming) as Tortoise Jousting.

I find it extremely offensive that the high sport of Tortoise Jousting recieves no recognition from the international community. I will not stand for this cultural exclusion simply because of the actions of Tonga in the World Jousting Conference of 1979. I, and every other Tortoise Jousting enthusiast, demand that Tortoise Jousting recieve the same treatment as every other internationally recognized jousting sport.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 5thperiodmun (talk • contribs)

[edit] Images

This article is image-heavy and probably needs to have images removed. Here is a possible improvement from Wikimedia Commons: Durova 05:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teams

What was the sport called when two teams of knights met at a tournament and fought in a melee, or is that only a Victorian fantasy? --Philip Baird Shearer 10:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

It was called "Tournament". Jousting is a later "civil" (chivalric) introduction, tournament was initially just a giant free-for-all "mock" battle that had no boundaries and could over-run villages which would be destroyed in the action (knights were more likely to die in tournament than battle). -- Stbalbach 13:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation?

The top of the page is getting a little crowded. How many links warrant a disambiguation?

Done. Easy enough. Really if there are any links at the top it could be disambiguated. -- Stbalbach 14:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Thank you.--Vercalos 21:34, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English joust

The whole section regarding the English type of joust is rubbish. Most (if not all) jousts had the most common intention of breaking a lance. Just further evidence that this aticle needs a complete re-write.

That particular fact(that the article needs a re-write) has been established.--Vercalos 07:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I suggest these be trimmed a bit. Usually 2 to 3 are enough. Extra info rather than all the groups out there.Peter Rehse 09:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martial Arts Project

Just a general question I suppose. Why does this article on jousting fall under the Martial Arts project!?!

That makes no sense!

Anyone, feel free to explain the connection to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 5thperiodmun (talk • contribs)

Why is jousting NOT a martial art? Just because it is equestrian and not Asian - does this disqualify it?! It is a very pure "combat sport" just like many so- called martial arts and probably closer to ist's martial roots than something like judo! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.199.240 (talk • contribs)

Jousting is part of what is now being referenced as "Western Martial Arts" as opposed to "Eastern Martial Arts" which is what most people think of when simply using the words "Martial Arts." I haven't read into the martial arts guidelines, but at the very least there should be a distinction between the two within that. Sethholmes (talk) 13:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horses

I've added a tag to a new article I am working on about Medieval horses. In the process, I noted that the information on horses here contains inaccuracies (like the rest of the article). I hope to come back sometime and improve things. If anyone else is keen to work on revising this article as per suggestions listed throughout this talk page, drop me a note on my talk page, and we can perhaps work together on it. Gwinva 20:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Training

Does anyone have a source to support the use of riding something other than a horse to train for the joust? I'm also removing that bit about being hit by the Quintain hitting a rider. As this is only possible if the horse decides to stop a fraction of a second after you've hit it.--Talroth 18:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I saw that in a fiction movie, maybe that the source for the claim... WAS 4.250 23:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure the source of this myth, and it isn't so much of a true myth as it is that people see it as happening all the time. It is possible but highly unlikely. If I can find it, I'll post the math showing how you need to really screw with the numbers to get hit by it, either an insanely long lance, or manage to hit the target with a massive force while going very slowly. Or simply hitting it and pulling your horse to a stop right beside it. This is one of those things right along with knights needing help to get into the saddle (as in from a crane), or not being able to get up once they fall down.--Talroth 01:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think this article's main contributors are fans of A Knight's Tale (even linked in the article!!), well-meaning re-enactors who add links to their own group, and readers of questionable historic fiction. As many have moaned before me, this article consists of a lot of poorly written nonsense. Just look at the reference list, for starters: no reputable historians at all, just enthusiasts peddling their own assumptions. Probably best to rewrite it completely in a sandbox, then replace this, rather than trying to paste over the cracks. It's been on my "to-do" list for ages, but I haven't had time to do more than patrol vandalism. Gwinva 07:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Read ww.nipissingu.ca/department/history/muhlberger/froissart/gauvain.htm The Chronicles of Froissart and Froissart's Chronicles. Froissart goes on and on and on in several places about entire tournaments giving detail after detail. The only one I found not boring was the one I added to the article about a joust actually stopping a war! It is as if during WWI, the germans and french had stopped fighting for a day or two to play a football game between soldiers trying to look gallent for the ladies. WAS 4.250 07:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Try Ulrich von Liechtenstein's Service of Ladies. Consists almost entirely of 'We went to Thistown, there we didst fight seven knights of great repute, afterwhich we didst repair to Thattown, where we unhorsed eight knights.' All rhyming, of course. :) Gwinva 15:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Talroth: answer to your first question. Yes, I have here a reference for lance-games on boats (on the Thames, 12th C), on wooden horse pulled by esquires (14th C), jousting on barrels and foot-jousting. All Juliet Barker (1986) p 151. She classes these as 'Quintain' games. Check out Hastilude: a new page I've created and will build up, as a first step in sorting all this tournament stuff. A few headings, waiting for expansion by anyone willing. As to this page, I've quickly removed some of those dreadful corporate links. There are too many pictures, also. As for the text, a complete rewrite would be good, but perhaps we (anyone) can work on it section by section. Gwinva 19:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Armor

Armor is normaly spelled without the "U" and nobody described what chain mail even is, and why are all of those words in ( ), they don't have to. Duuuh

--Joordaann 12:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

1. Armour is always spelt with a "u" in British and Commonwealth English. This is the version adopted by this article, and thus should be followed consistently. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English for policy.
2. We don't need to describe mail: it is linked for those who are unaware.
3. the ()'s were actually []'s, and required for linking like so. (Linking terms helps readers find out information about related topics).

I've reverted your changes. But thanks for your contributions. See Wikipedia:Tutorial for general editing help. Gwinva 23:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hi

what is this?? and i am looking at jousting for my history project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.8.6 (talk) 19:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking. But contributions are always welcome on Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Introduction. Gwinva 20:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)