User talk:John D. Croft

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Welcome!

Hello John D. Croft, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• [[Wikipedia:Tutorial pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  --Hurricane111 05:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello, John. I am interested in the two articles you have started: Proto-Euphratean (talk · history · watch) and Proto-Afro-Asiatic (talk · history · watch). You are obviously writing from a pro-Nostratic point of view. However, Wikipedia is a community-built encyclopaedia in which many points of view are presented. Overall, we strive for a neutral point of view (please read), and try to back up our writing with sources, the corollary of which is no original research (please read). You may also want to read the manual of style, as this suggests how best to format articles. Some of your work so far has been labelled as problematic in one of these ways. This is quite common for newcomers: these labels are as much for the community as for you. Make use of the talk pages associated with each article to engage in discussion on the topic. Doing this often helps editors work together to improve articles. Feel free to ask me a question on my talk page. --Gareth Hughes 17:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Noongar

Hi John,

Thanks for your comments and contributions at Yagan, Noongar classification, Perth, Western Australia and Talk:Swan River Colony. Certainly you are right that there is a systemic bias towards the white colonial perspective of Western Australian history. I'm sure no-one intends to present a racist history, but that's what ends up happening because so few contributors understand indigenous culture and social structure.

I'm a pretty good example of this problem; when I was writing Yagan I tried to present a balanced view, and I tried to provide important cultural information such as Yagan's tribe and classification, but I simply don't understand it all well enough to write about it properly. Hence the second rate attempt at Noongar classification, and hence [edits like this].

Drew (Snottygobble) | Talk 11:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Dear Drew

I am a very recent Wikipedia entrant and my skills are still fairly elementary. Looking at your excallent Yagan article shows me that your skills are of a high order. I still don't understand the nature of Wikipedia's policies regarding images, nor the technique for incorporating images into the text, and would appreciate any help on this I can get.

I would also appreciate help on the articles of Whadjuk and Pindjarup that I have recently written and uploaded.

Regards John D. Croft 22:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline of evolution

You have recently added information regarding ice ages to the timeline of evolution article. Could you please provide a reference for that information? If your source is a book, could you also provide a brief quote from the book, to confirm the information (as per the other references on that page)? Thank you. -- Ec5618 10:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I tried adding the references but failed, as I am only a starter and don't understand the referencing format you have used.

They are

• John, Brian (Ed)(1979) "The Winters of the World: Earth under the Ice Ages" Jacaranda Press ISBN 047026844-1 presents the evidence for the Huronian Ice Age.
• Walker, Gabrielle, (2003) "Snowball Earth: The Story of the Great Global Catastrophe that Spawned Life as we know it" Bloomsbury ISBN 0747654337, presents the evidence for the "Runaway Ice House theory.

Could you insert them for me

Many thanks

John D. Croft 11:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the references. Could you please provide a quote from each book? Ideally, I'd like to include a quote from "The Winters of the World" in which the Huronian Ice Age is concluded to be real (along the lines of "from all this, we can conclude that some 2500MYa, the Earth was in the middle of an Ice age"), and a quote from "Snowball Earth" in which the concept of Ice house effect is summarised (possibly from the back cover, along the lines of "The ice house effect was the result of rampant oxygen production, which destroyed most of the methane in the atmosphere, and caused the global temperature to drop dramatically"). Again, thank you. -- Ec5618 11:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I am currently at work and under a fair bit of pressure (and don't have access to my reference library here) so I am unable to comply with your request at the moment. Thank you again for your help.

John D. Croft 03:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

No problem. We have time. Thanks. -- Ec5618 08:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Galaxy

Hi John, A lot of your edits to the Galaxy article look good, but it's really hard to follow when you make dozens of edits each day. Please try to make just a few major edits so that others who have the article on their watchlists can keep track of what's going on.

Also, I'm concerned about the non-scientific tone of some of the edits. Particularly, I don't think it's appropriate to have a section on "life in galaxies". Life lives on planets, which happen to be in galaxies, but I don't see a strong connection between the two. -- Xerxes 15:46, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate all the work you've put in to this - but can you explain the logic behind your most recent change. As far as I understand the literature, there's no evidence for more than one central black hole in the Milky Way Chrislintott 06:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yaw (god)

Greetings, John!

Great recent edits here. I hope more able editors like you will contribute to this article. I just now added a short phrase identifying Yaw with Chaos (mythology) further down (in paragraph two). Also, I think that Yam and Nahar should be specified as "bynames", a fact made clear in the excerpts from the Baal Cycle. What do you think?

  - C. dentata 20:21, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Great Castanea dentata, I like your edits. What about an earlier section though. Giovanni Pettinato at Ebla identified an earlier Yah phase appearance at Ebla associated with the reign of Ebrum there (see my post on the discussion page). Bottero and others have identified this with the extension of Akkadian Ea into northern Iraq and Syria under Sargon of Akkad. I would like to include this on your discussion of Levantine Yaw. What are your thoughts.

John D. Croft 00:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I enthusiastically agree. I think this will call for a new section. To do that, though, we will need to gather some reputable sources. You are welcome to start. I hope to run down to the uni. library at some point when I have time...  - C. dentata 01:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

Hi John,

I'm all for countering the systemic bias in Wikipedia by providing better coverage of Aboriginal culture and history, so I think your knowledge and appreciation of these issues could be of enormous benefit to Wikipedia. But I must say some of your edits are unencyclopaedic in their bias. If you're going to write obviously POV statements like "Stirling's vindictive vengeful policies", it would be better if you didn't edit the articles at all. Can we try to keep it neutral and verifiable please? Snottygobble 22:13, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

• Gathering facts to support your position is original research, which does not belong on Wikipedia, even if you are right. The only appropriate way to support your position on Wikipedia is to gather references. Your statement that Stirling had vindictive vengeful policies is only verifiable if the majority of reputable sources clearly agree that Stirling had vindictive vengeful policies. A very brief look at my biography of Stirling by Statham indicates that Statham, for one, would not agree with your position. You need to refactor your statements to neutrally communicate all points of view, rather than propounding your own. Snottygobble 07:20, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:NCG250collision.jpg

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Thanks for your post regarding Copywrite on the image of Galaxies colliding. I am still a newbie Wikipedia contributer and so have some difficulties in creating pages. The image, I believe was from a public domain site but for the life of me I cannot remember were I got it from. Can you help?

Warm regards

John D. Croft 06:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell the original source of the image was this press release it is available in super high resolution here. I can't find anything stating what the copyrigth of the image is. Maybe you could contact Gill Ormrod who's email is on the press release and ask about the copyright status. Failing that it is probably OK to use the fair use boilerplate {{Promophoto}} on it. --Martyman-(talk) 07:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

this site is in the image page as being the source, and it mentions credit to Gemini, if that helps. - cohesion★talk 07:57, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lahm

Lahm has been proposed for deletion. Is there any information that can be added to this article? If not, it makes more sense to simply include this information in a related article and make Lahm a redirect to that article. If there's more to be said about Lahm, please add some information to the article or explain your plans on the talk page. Also, definitely include some sources to comply with WP:V. If you feel you've made your case for keeping the article, go ahead and remove the "prod" notice to stop the deletion process. NickelShoe 06:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Western Australia

Hello John. I reverted your added statement in the Western Australia article claiming that Perth is nearer to Singapore than to Sydney. As I checked in Great Circle Mapper, Perth-Singapore is 2420 miles, while Perth-Sydney is 2041 miles. Clearly then, Sydney is still nearer to Perth. I did reword the sentence so the idea that Perth is quite isolated in that respect is still there. Elektrik Blue 82 00:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Image196.gif

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Ngc520collision.jpg

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[edit] Pythia and Delphi

Hey, I'd like to thank you for your work on these articles, which is greatly improving their quality.

I hope this does not seem impertinent, but I wonder if I could ask you to give more complete citations in your edits. For instance, when you're quoting ancient sources, it would be very helpful to give the author, the work, and the location of the passage (book/line numbers for poetry, book/paragraph numbers for prose, or other standard reference system). Similarly, when you mention facts derived from modern scholarship, please cite author, work, page number. For instance, you've brought Lisa Maurizio's work into the article, which is a great thing, but it would be even better to have specific page numbers to look at to verify the information.

Again, I hope that my comment does not seem rude or offensive, because your edits are taking the articles in a much better direction. --Akhilleus (talk) 06:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:Uruk.jpeg

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[edit] Sustainability

Hi John, I noticed your contribution of the emergy table to the sustainability page. Because emergy has not yet gained universal acceptance some view the method and nomenclature with suspiscion. Because of this it is important to include as much referencing to published literature as possible. If you could provide references to the formulas and the table in the sustainability article that would be terrific. On another matter, have you performed any emergy audits to evaluate the sustainability of a region or entity? I'd be interested to have further contact with you on this. Please let me know. Cheers, Sholto Maud 10:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, John... As a result of noticing the work you've done on the Sustainability page, and then scanning through your User page, I thought I'd leave a message.

I recently left a message at the Talk:Fishery page concerning the inadequacy of the current Fishery article as regards any detail concerning the degradation of the ocean fisheries of the world. (Unfortunately, I realized, I had not logged in when I left my recent message requesting more information be added concerning impacts on "the noble fishes" (large, choice species such as cod, halibut, tuna, salmon).

It isn't that I think this (fisheries) is a special focus of yours or a special interest of yours, but I thought you might be in touch with some persons who may know something about this topic and might be willing to expand the Fishery article. Please pass this request on, if you would, to someone who can help out, if you know anyone. Thanks. Joel Russ

John, you wrote on my "Talk" page: "Hi Joel. Regarding sustainable fisheries, there are few good examples in the world to point to and industrial fishing, with sein purse nets and long-lines are particularly damaging to the environment. The Australian government has been particularly concerned with the poaching of Patagonian tooth fish (see article at http://www.aad.gov.au/default.asp?casid=11981) and also with the taking of sharks fins, trochus shells and beche la mer (Sea cucumbers) by Indonesian craft, operating for Chinese syndicates in the north."

Like myself, I believe you are very concerned to put positive sustainability ideas 'out there'... however, with respect to fisheries the news at present is mostly bad. But, still, the fact is not conveyed well (that is, in any detail whatsoever) in the Fishery article - which is why I wrote to you. Do you think we can find someone who can add a bit of useful detail? Afterall, Wikipedia is much used by secondary-school and college/university students as a first resource on many topics; they are the future, so they should be learning something about this vital dimension of the fisheries topic.

Best, Joel

[edit] License tagging for Image:Sumer1.jpg

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[edit] Community studies

Hi John. I appreciated your edits on Community development and other contributions. Image:Vavilov Zones1.jpg would be useful if you could give it a licence and a bit of backing. The Neolithic revolution article is quite interesting. We could use some help on other community-related articles espesially Community studies. I know of the Gaia Movement from Wikia:Ecovillage (where you can do original research). • CQ • WP:CBTF • 15:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Enki.jpg

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[edit] Whadjuk

Hi John, I noticed you spent a lot of time with this article. We've run into a problem with the Mount Eliza, Western Australia and the Kings Park, Western Australia articles both of these have differing Names to each other ad to the Whadjuk article. Would know of a source that we can quote to clear this up as our sources all differ. Gnangarra 00:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] r/K selection theory

Hi there. I've just been looking at your recent edits to the r/K selection theory article. I'm afraid that I'm not convinced that they help articulate the general theory. It seems to me that the concepts of r/K are used in Adaptive Capacity analogously to how they are used in ecology. Certainly the current reference to adaptive capacity is unclear and confusing (it also needs copyediting). It might be better to move the adaptive capacity material to a "See also" point. Not least because explaining the relevance of r/K for adaptive capacity might be best done there (I notice that it's not at the moment). Cheers, --Plumbago 16:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tale of Two Brothers

Is this is not copyrighted (On the one hand, it is old enough to be in the public domain, on the other hand, I doubt it was originally written in English) would it not be more suited to being in WikiSource, as is it is basically just the original text? J Milburn 14:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I thought it unlikely that it was a copyright violation, but what you have written isn't an encyclopedia article, it is the story in modern English. J Milburn 14:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

More appropriate than just copying out the source text would be to move the source text to WikiSource, and to talk about the significance of the text. Remember to reference what you say, take a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) and check this. Both of them talk about what I have said in more detail, with examples. Drop me a line if I can be of any help. J Milburn 14:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The best way to make the article relevent to Wikipedia would be to have a read of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction). That talks about what to include, and how to include it. Remember to source everything you say! J Milburn 15:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semitic & PAA

I emailed you about Proto-Semitic and Afro-Asiatic, but you haven't responded. Could you send those articles to my email address? I'd love to discuss the issue with you. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 08:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Noongar

Nice to see someone addressing bias in , and general improvements to the article. Take a look at WP:CSB if you don't know it. You could probably improve that also. Wikiproject Western Australia (WP:WA) could benefit from someone like yourself. So could the Whadjuk article if you are passing that way. Faithfully, Fred 16:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, should have read your talk page. Please join the WP:WA Fred 15:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA Project

Welcome to the project - hope you can cope with those of us like fred and I - hes freo I'm the hills and there are others between! SatuSuro 06:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Hi Fred. I tried signing up to the WP:WA page and could not manage it. Any help gratefully received. John D. Croft 17:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome John, sorry I didn't get back to you. I'm glad you solved the problem. I intend to simplify the participants section, editing a page is something I found a bit mystifying when I started at wikipedia. This was only recently, so I can only offer basic assistance and good advice I have received. Such as, "swipe from others", copy the code you find on pages here - even user pages (not mine!). Check out the talk pages of others, for example at our WP:WA. A quick glance at your contributions shows you have been busy. Your contributions at nyungar related pages would be more than the regular 'two cents', have a look at them if interested your 40 000 'ceiling' comments were helpful to me. I hope you are finding it enjoyable here. Regards,

Fred 09:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Jcroft.JPG listed for deletion

[edit] Image:Gaiamainlogo.jpg listed for deletion

• I've retagged the image as {{logo}}

[edit] Green Transport Project

I've deleted this article as being a non-notable project. You may wish to review Wikipedia:Notability. Also, the article you created read very much like a brochure rather than being an encyclopedia article. Please have a look at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Wikipedia is not a hosting service for groups or their projects, but an encyclopedia. It is important for us to maintain the neutral point of view at all times in articles. If you have questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. --Durin 20:56, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Gaiamainlogo.jpg)

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[edit] Try

Bibbulmun TrackSatuSuro 13:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] European Dark Age

I replied to your message on my talk page.--FreeKresge 17:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bay, Amenmesse and Seti

Thanks for the informative reply on the Syrian influence in the 19th dynasty court. Can you list the reference & page number for your contribution on he evil Paneb in your article on Seti II? You obviously have a book or magazine on him. With kind Regards, Leoboudv 23:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC) Thanks for editing out the nonsense on Seti II. Its good to know someone pays attention to historicity here! BTW, if you have any cited info on Paneb, pls feel free to add a reference to it. I once saw an article mention Paneb but can't remember its source. Leoboudv 08:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influenza

Your addition to this article is very interesting, but it may be removed if it is not supported by a reference. Could you hunt something up? History isn't really my area of expertise. TimVickers 19:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

User:WAS 4.250 has now removed that section, but if you add it back with a reference and phrased to make it clear this is discussing the early history of influenza, I'm sure there will be no problem. TimVickers 20:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. TimVickers 20:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dark Ages

Sorry for the long reply. The reason I removed it was because the article is focused on the European Middle Ages, with Dark Ages (disambiguation) handling other so-called "dark ages". It's been a problem in the past with people using the article for all sorts of purposes and we are trying to keep it focused to the one topic. I'm afraid that paragraph is going to open a can of worms as people expand on it. -- Stbalbach 17:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Western Australian Aboriginal Groups

Be happy to help in any way I can. - Fred ^(talk) 03:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My edit to Dark Ages

Ok, gotcha, sorry about the issue. FYI, there's a template somewhere (sorry, I don't have the link handy) that says something to the effect of 'This article is currently undergoing a major revision. Please do not edit it until this template is removed'. Alternatively, you could create a subpage of your userpage and use that as a sandbox. Again, sorry about that. Hornandsoccer^Talk 02:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Western European Dark Ages is a content fork and against the rules. -- Stbalbach 03:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

John, I understand what your trying to do, but it will just get reverted, you have not established consensus to rename Dark Ages to Western European Dark Ages - in fact there are considerable number of people against it - nor is there any consensus that Dark Ages should be a article about something besides Europe. In fact we already have a whole bunch of articles on Wikipedia that cover the topic you want to discuss. Finally, Dark Ages is most commonly used in relation to Europe, which is why it gets preference for the article title, per the Wikipedia rules on "most common usage" under article naming. I understand your point of view, but I'm not sure you fully understand the rules of how Wikipedia operates when there are disagreements. -- Stbalbach 03:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Akkad

Please discuss such radical changes on the talk page before you redirect the entire article.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

And get feedback from others.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deluge (mythology)

I see that you've moved part of the description under "The flood of Ogyges" to "Theories of origin". This description refers to the map of the Aegean Sea and is also associated with Plato's account. If you don't mind, I propose to move the description back to "Ogyges", next to the relevant map. --Odysses (☜) 12:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Meetup 2

Due to a foul-up, my WP email page was not activated which has now been fixed. As noted on the Meetup talk page, could you please email me with the details you'd like to have placed on your nametag. Firstnames and Usernames as a minimum, Surnames accommodated on request. Cheers, Thewinchester ^(talk) 14:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Study of History

Hi. I noticed you had made several edits to A Study of History, so I'm hoping you will either know, or know who can, answer whether a particular edit was politically motivated and wrong. User:neomoon made some one-sided edits today, which shows they are "on one side" or the other of Korea vs. Japan. So their first edit to the article may have not been (cough) factually-based. A totally minor point, and I could probably safely revert it, but if you have certain knowledge that would be far better. Shenme 22:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal History of Western Australia

John, I really enjoyed this and congratulate you on putting together a very readable essay on a very tricky subject. I warn you though that the nature of this place is that it will be criticised for being too opinionated in a few places and from time-to-time taking an unencyclopaedic tone. For example: "Hopefully, in this first part of the 21st century Australians of non-Australian origins will at last be able to recognise both Aboriginal and white Australians as full brothers and sisters in the future of this country."; and "Understanding our landscape is dependent upon our understanding of the Aboriginal history of the people who made this landscape." Some quotations in inverted commas, eg. "biologically capable of having children, but not socially capable of raising them" really must have inline citations.

I hope that you will accept these as constructive criticisms and are prepared for some vandalism which this will no doubt attract. Regards —Moondyne 08:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll leave some more comments on the talk page for wider involvement. —Moondyne 08:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Pinjarra

Would you mind having a look at this sometime? —Moondyne 12:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

After a quick read, it looks much improved - thanks. I'd like to go over it more closely tomorrow. Cheers. —Moondyne 15:36, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your images

Two images you uploaded, Image:Paleogeobiophysiology1.jpg and Image:Paleogeobiophysiology.jpg, are currently under discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geology. I'm inviting you to respond - specifically, what the sources were for this information and whether you could re-make these graphs to be less confusing. The way, the truth, and the light 05:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] regarding Wangai

Hey! i do not set out to insult anyone. Please assume good faith. I created the redirect because the page seems like nonsense to me, i have never heard of such people and your article has no reliable references, in fact it has none at all. A quick "google" search resulted with no substantial returns, so I added the redirect. Would you please add some references? that would be great. Assuming that this information is true, perhaps it could be incorporated with the Indigenous Australians article. Or more information could be added to the current article. Slowbro 06:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Meetup Notification

Perth Meetup Next: TBA Last: 13/02/2008 This box: view • talk • edit

• You are invited to a meetup of Western Australian Wikipedians on the 19th August 2007 in the tearooms of Tranby House. Please sign on the Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/3 if you are able to attend. you recieved this message as your account has been active during May, June 2007 and your user page is listed in the Category:Wikipedians in Western Australia Gnangarra 03:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] higher criticism

thanks for your help. Jonathan Tweet 06:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I can help you on the ancient history of Israel and Judah front. For one thing, I'm out of my depth. For another, it looks like one of those articles that conflates Biblical narrative and history. Good luck with it. Jonathan Tweet 15:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Waldorf education

Thank you for contributing to the Waldorf education page. We are under arbitration rulings requiring us to cite references for all material; do you have one for the comparison (which I find very apt) to Teilhard? If not, it probably qualifies as original research and should be dropped. Sorry... Hgilbert 18:04, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. Hgilbert 01:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

Thanks for your excellent photos of Twosret and Chancellor Bay and also for the footnotes on Akhenaten. If possible, please try to list the specific page of the book you cite since a publication may contain hundreds of pages. Unfortunately, Akhenaten will never be a featured Wikipedia article on Wikipedia. He just attracts too many weirdos and followers of unorthodox ideas. The only serious contribution I made here was the section on his International relations where I cited the invaluable resource of the Amarna letters. Regards, Leoboudv 07:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geography

Very good of you to start - its a brave editor to start an art like that one - however dont expect anything but merciless editing though - cheers - and well done to have started it! SatuSuro 03:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It basically is a very challenging article to start - I am going to slowly jump in every now and then seeing i personally knew most of the UWA and Curtin geography people of 20 years ago and more - there are many many issues that need to be nutted out - and it wont happen overnight - I am sure of that! SatuSuro 05:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually reading your user page ( mine is impervious) - I realise we were probably around at the same time at UWA and crossed paths - we should have fun doing it (the article) just getting the big picture alone - is a challenge . oh well another day a few more words - cheers SatuSuro 06:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:WAClimates.jpg

Hi John. You describe the image as your own work using Powerpoint. Unfortunately, I don't think that that will stack up against the copyright experts here who will take a strict line in that the map is clearly based on a presumably copyrighted map previously published elsewhere. Hence it is a derivative work. Unless you genuinely are the creator of the base map (in which case you need to clearly state this on the image page), I am afraid that it'll need to be redone using a "free" base map. Some free maps of WA are at commons:Category:Maps of Western Australia and Category:Maps of Australia. A Köppen classification map for Australia has been done at Image:Australia-climate-map MJC01.png which could be cropped I suppose to show WA only. Sing out if you need a hand or more guidance. —Moondyne 07:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. The bottom line is that someone, somewhere owns the copyright to that old tourist map. And the Wikimedia Foundation has decreed that it will not publish copyrighted materials, including derivative works. Per US Copyright Office Circular 14: Derivative Works: "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work." —Moondyne 08:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

WHat a pain that is - i bet some lawyer somewhere has the high paid job in tracing impossible to find copyright holders SatuSuro 09:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright covers the expression of information, not the information itself. The geographical information in an old tourist map is not copyrightable; only the way in which that information is expressed is.

For example, the makers of that old tourist map had to decide upon a projection and coordinate system for them map. They had to decided whether or not to distinguish between different classes of road, and if so how. They had to decide which features to list and which not to. For roads, they had to choose between full, broken or dotted lines; they had to select a line thickness and a line colour. They had to do the same for railway lines and rivers. They had to select background shading colours for ocean, land and lakes. They had to decide upon icons for features such as bridges, hills, etc. They had to choose a typeface and font size for place names. All of these things represent creative decisions about how to represent geographic information, and all of them are copyrightable.

But the geographical information underlying the map is not copyrightable. If John extracted the geographical information from the map, e.g. by tracing it, but independently made his own decisions on colour schemes, font, iconography, etc, then the resultant creative work is his and his alone. I don't think that has happened here though; I think this map reuses the original map's iconography etcetera. So we have a problem.

Hesperian 11:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

OK Gents, leave it with me, I'll try to redraw the outlines and recreate the map - unforuntanely the way I have done my maps in the past have been using Powerpoint (the only map making package I have - if someone has a better system and was interested I'd gladly pass it over to them. It would be good if the new map includes the sites mentioned in the climatic texts. John D. Croft 23:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I created a new one based on a cropped version of the Australian map. See Image:Western Australia-climate-map.png. —Moondyne 06:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Geography of Western Australia

John, could you look at Talk:Geography of Western Australia#Climate Change and Global Warming section sometime please. —Moondyne 07:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks John. I tidied up the references a bit more. —Moondyne 09:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal history of Western Australia

In period 3, the last 2 entries say 1977 and 1979. I presume they should read 1877 and 1879. I'd change myself but thought it best to let you fix. —Moondyne 02:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

And regards to you to. Thanks. —Moondyne 02:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/3 is next sunday 19th August, if you haven't already please sign on the meetup page if your coming, if your still unsure indicate anyway so I can confirm numbers with the venue thankyou Gnangarra 00:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mehrgarh 7000–3200 BC

Fair enough. (RookZERO 03:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Civilization

As one of the few regular watchers of the Civilization article, I wanted to discuss my changes with you directly. I'm slowly preparing a completely new version of the page with a more logical outline and more citations. Would you like to take a look at it so far? Right now it is little more than an outline with a few sections on their way to being fleshed out. It's at User:Fishal/Civilization. I've already put the new lead section into the article, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the rest of it, particularly the overall structure of the article. Fishal 19:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the input. I'll add mythical civilizations to the outline right now. I'll add Axial Age to the "History" section. Or do you think it would better belong in the "theories" section? It's more a theory about a specific period in the history of civilization than a theory about the nature of civilization itself (like unilineal evolution, Marxism, diffusionism, etc). And one of the main things I'm trying to do is separate facts (definitions and uncontested archaeological evidence) from the big spectrum of theories. Currently it's all comingled in a very confusing fashion. Anyway, thank you very much for your help. Fishal 14:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Enki

Feel free to re-nominate the article at and await a review. Although i suggest you clean up the one sentence paragraphs, get rid of the [1] external links like this and use the ref format. Get rid of the 'in popular culture' section as it is a trivia section, see WP:TRIVIA, format the web webreferences accordingly to include a name, publisher, and retrieved date. At the moment it would not pass a GA review in my opinion but with some work it will get there. M3tal H3ad 10:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amatlei Bas Karnebo

My "source" was this: [2] obviously an apologetic work of this like doesn't carry much weight, which is why I didn't bring it into the article. He says the name is in some form of ancient records (I'm not 1oo% sure it was sumerian). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolf2191 (talk • contribs) 19:37, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Documentary Hypothesis (death thereof) and archaeology

John, I've reverted your recent addition to the DH article, in which you wrote that the collapse of the DH consensus was lin ked in some way to archaeological discoveries (presumably post-Albrightean). I'm not aware of any reason for thinking there's a conenction - the challenge to the DH was entirely methodological so far as I know, with people questioing whether the use of distinct terms for God erally indicated distinct authors, etc etc. On the archaeological front, the 70s saw a revolution in archaeological theory which led to (or aided in the emergence of) minimalism, but Lemche et. al. were far from the only ones to question the DH - they were a distinct minority. So I'd link the fall of biblical archaeology to the rise of minimalism, but not to the demise of the DH or the re-emeergence of spllementary and framgmentary hypotheses. But if you have evidecne to support your view (or if I've misunderstood it), please let me know. Cheers, CP 00:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PiCo (talk • contribs) 10:06, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Documentary Hypothesis

Thanks for the speedy response John. Yes, your point is clear. But I'm nor sure it's relevant to the DH. The Dh relates specifically to the Pentateuch - defined in the broadest possible way, it's the idea that the five books are based on distinct source-documents, each complete in itself. Arguments about the Court History and the DtrH are therefore irrelevant.

There are some interesting recent studies about the DtrH, based on the canonisation process in Hellenistic times - the idea is to take the earliest written references to the texts and reconstruct their history from that. The basic premise, I guess, is that this is as close as we can get to the actual books involved without physical texts. I believe the resulting thesis is that the DtrH, as a collection of histories, dates from the 1st century BC - far later even than Hezekiah! Of course, this doesn't detract from the notion that the Court History may contain earlier material, but it does stress the idea that the CH is a hypothetical document. Cheers, CP 00:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PiCo (talk • contribs) 13:45, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect of Kasekhemui

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Kasekhemui, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Kasekhemui is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Kasekhemui, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. Cheers, CP 00:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect of William McNiel

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on William McNiel, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because William McNiel is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting William McNiel, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. Cheers, CP 00:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fishal (talk • contribs) 19:33, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your GA nomination of Enki

The article Enki you nominated as a good article has failed , see Talk:Enki for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of said article. If you oppose this decision, you may ask for a reassessment. Cheers, CP 00:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pelasgians

You seemed to have placed a passage from Herodotus in the introductory paragraphs of the Pelasgians article. I recommend that you remove the passage since it does not belong there. Either place the passage in the Herodotus section of the article or remove it completely. Though I appreciate your boldness in adding content to an article, it would be best to discuss about the edits you wish to make. Deucalionite 15:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ecological footprint

Living planet index is already linked in the body, wp style guide indicates that an article should not be multiply linked. --Belg4mit 19:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tiamat

I removed the alleged Sumerian derivation for Tiamat that you inserted, which gave the misleading impression that it were supported by the Burkert work referenced. It is not. If you have a reference for the Sumerian, do please put it back, with a <ref></ref> footnote. --Wetman 07:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phoenicians ethnic identity

Hi

I just read what you wrote on the article talk page, i.e. Phoenicia talk page, about the Canaanite origin of them-as you know, there are 7 ancient nations which were part of the Canaanite group, or, and more generally, from an Akkadian ancestry. So, which of them you think the Phoenicians was? (i.e. Edomites, etc) Best--Gilisa 06:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I moved my reply to my talk page.

[edit] Emissions trading and Carbon tax

Hi, I thought your interesting xref to public perceptions of a carbon tax would be better suited for the carbon tax article, so I moved it over there. I recognise there is a need a for a discussion on the pros & cons of both (and how they complement each other) & I'll try and address that sometime - probably under the trading article. Until then I've put in a simple reference to carbon in the trading article. Ephebi 13:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

• see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carbon_tax&diff=171421231&oldid=170888190

I note that there have been a couple more pro-tax articles added in there - interesting but could do with some balance as I don't see anything from an economist's or sustainable development perspective. Ephebi 10:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of watercourses in Western Australia Split

You proposed splitting [List of watercourses in Western Australia] into "Ramsar Hydrological Regions" some time back. It has never been split and is now one of the longest and hardest to use pages on wikipedia. I don't know what "Ramsar Hydrological Regions", but I'm proposing it be split. If we can do it by the method you suggest, my idea would be simply by alphabetic subpages. Mbisanz (talk) 03:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biomass table

There are two questions in Talk:Biomass regarding the biomass table that you added a while ago. Cheers, AxelBoldt (talk) 06:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal history of Western Australia

Hi John - just compared the current and earlier versions of this article. Sad to see this article now only contains the word "discrimination" once. (Racial Discrimination Act) I am hoping that you will eventually go back and work with the other editors to create a more detailed and informative article. Fitting into WP guidelines in not always easy - and at times editors are not focused on bettering the encyclopaedia. Your knowledge of the topic looks valuable and well-worth including. SmithBlue (talk) 03:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I could imagine you would be mightily pissed off as to the fate of the aboriginal history article - deleting will not happen - it is a matter of working out - would you like to engage in any way about the resultant 3 articles? If so could you pleas email me so I can explain some of the issues that I do not wish to air here - otherwise my apologies for what has happened - but at least you have the opportunity - if you wish to engage further - either by email, at the article talk page, my talk page, or - otherwise what about a coffee sometime SatuSuro 01:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If that is the case 'that aboriginals use it' - in that form - it should be somewhere else - someone needs to start an off wiki blog or web site - or something like that is not an encyclopedia - as in that form it didnt conform to wikipedia standards and someone else would have probably been a lot more brutal than i - being an anthro student at uwa in the days of the berndts and basil s. The offer for a coffee is still open if you are in Perth - and I would prefer off wiki to explain the issues it would take too long to explain via email/etc especially if you are on the move soon - please email me at email this user on the talk page - cheers SatuSuro 03:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Current format is here: -

• Timeline of Aboriginal history of Western Australia
• Aboriginal history of Western Australia
• Aboriginal groupings of Western Australia

One meetup for about 2 hours should solve everything relative to the issue in one go if you have the time and location not too far from Perth metro :) SatuSuro 03:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

It would be very useful to know whether you were interested or not in such a meetup as it might be a good avenue to explain things I am not prepared to discuss on wikipedia talk pages - and explain the background to some issues without offending others - and also clarifying the madness behind the method - if you prefer not to - thats fine I would respect your sense of privacy ok - but the opportunity is there if you are interested. Not showing an email account also limits my capacity to explain - cheers SatuSuro 07:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that mate - I'm reverting my talk page to sustain your privacy - I'll call you soon - cheers SatuSuro 07:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pillars of the Church

The article that you started with the above title has been nominated for WP:AFD, on the basis that it is WP:OR. However it looks to me as if you had sources for what you wrote. If you did, I would suggest that you immediately add them to the article. I have no strong view on its correctness and have not investigated how much has been added sicne you worked on it. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

At this stage I have seen nothing that would make me change my vote for deletion. The vagueness of the statements ("seems to have referred") remains and the references added are also vague - not only are there no direct quotes, there aren't even page numbers. There's no evidence that any of the references refer to the phrase "Pillars of the Church", and as such this is essentially a coatrack article. Finally, many of these references strike me as dubious ("Key to Unlocking"... "Hidden History"...) and so adding them has created more problems than it solved. StAnselm (talk) 06:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort you're putting in - I just don't think it's worth it for this particular article. I mean, I disagree with the fundamental premise, that "pillars of the church" designated a particular group of people. There's no evidence that I can see that this was the case. StAnselm (talk) 07:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry to find that your article has been deleted. If you had some substantial sources in what the Early Fathers said about the subject, you may consider re-creating it. However, you would need substantial published sources or website to cite. It pays to click the "watch" tab on all article that you create or undertake major edits of, so that you can defedn your work. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Juris Zarins

I've noticed you've been adding his theories regarding Canaanites and Proto-Semites. Has he received any support in the academic community? Also, how does his theory relate to Proto-Afro-Asiatic?--Yolgnu (talk) 01:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I already knew that. What I'm asking is whether Zarins places the Afro-Asiatic urheimat in the normal Ethiopia/Sudan, or in the Middle East. And I'd like to see some sources that support him, as Wikipedia is infested with Nostraticists, and so naturally an attempt to place an urheimat in the Fertile Crescent must be treated with suspicion.--Yolgnu (talk) 00:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Apologies

Have had school holidays to deal with - meant to ring, sorry about that. Whats the chance of this week or next? SatuSuro 02:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Youre still around - how long - possible to get a quick meetup - or too late? SatuSuro 06:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I am very sorry to not have caught up in a whole month - thanks for your patience SatuSuro 07:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Views on Evolution.jpg

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