Talk:John Africa
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[edit] Poorly sourced
There is a grand total of one unlinked source cited. I took the liberty of linking it, but that source by itself does not support the assertions of the article. A lot more than one citation is called for to establish that the Philly PD bombed and killed these people.Groupthink 07:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I'll see you and raise you TIME magazine. There is value to asking for more citations, and there is value to the Socratic method, but please don't play disingenuous. --Dhartung | Talk 08:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- "Please don't play disingenuous"? Please don't make ad hominem attacks. Assume good faith. Groupthink 08:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, and you might want to read up on the Socratic Method. You might be interested to learn that a rhetorical question is not the same thing as a Socratic inquiry. Groupthink 09:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
How's this for a source: I lived through it. It happened. 76.116.250.196 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:51, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Biased
Revolutionaries-with-a-capital-R? No mention of why the police allegedly commited this supposed massacre? If that's not WP:NPOV then I don't know what is. Groupthink 07:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Change it to radical. Be bold. Is anyone actually arguing with you, or do you just prefer a confrontational style? Usually that doesn't go over well on Wikipedia. --Dhartung | Talk 08:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Sure, and if I'd gone ahead and made those changes, I'd have caught all sorts of flak. Instead, I offered my points for consideration on the talk page. As for your other points, I find that pretty rude, quite frankly. Calling me "confrontational" is a pretty confrontational move on your part, if you ask me. Ad hominem attacks don't go over well on Wikipedia either. Please address my points, not what you perceive my style to be. Assume good faith. Groupthink 08:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mumia Abu-Jamal
The Mumia Abu-Jamal material is completely irrelevant. Groupthink 07:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- According to sources, it is.[1][2] Minor in terms of Africa's biography, but it seems relevant to talk about followers when you have a biography of a leader. --Dhartung | Talk 08:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Abu-Jamal requested that Africa represent him during his murder trial. That seems relevant to me. JCO312 18:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed, but could that be sourced, please? Groupthink 18:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd accept this as a sufficient citation, but it's from a partisan, primary source and I'd like third-party secondary source support for MAJ requesting JA as his attorney. However, I did add this as a cite for MAJ being a prominent follower of JA's teachings. I'll take MAJ at his word that he's a JA disciple, but I think it's reasonable to not take MAJ's account of his trial at face value. Groupthink 19:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- The trial transcript is available, but it's hosted by danielfaulkner.com, which is obviously not a neutral source. That being said, it is the transcript, so I would think its sufficient. I'll put the reference in once I find the page and line numbers. JCO312 19:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd say the source has sufficient verisimilitude so as to be sufficient, and heck, that transcript is riddled with JA refs. I'd leave it as is. Nice job. Groupthink 19:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- The trial transcript is available, but it's hosted by danielfaulkner.com, which is obviously not a neutral source. That being said, it is the transcript, so I would think its sufficient. I'll put the reference in once I find the page and line numbers. JCO312 19:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Abu-Jamal requested that Africa represent him during his murder trial. That seems relevant to me. JCO312 18:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is MOVE blamed for the block being burned? Yes, they did fire; however, it is a two-way road, and they weren't the only ones engaging. MOVE didn't drop the bomb. Neutrality is preferable, even though many would like to see the PPD given the blame (just representing the misrepresented). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.163.234.39 (talk) 22:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Boldness/improvement
I have been accused of not being sufficiently bold and failing to make a sufficient attempt to improve this article. This puts me in a bind. If I barge ahead with an edit, then I'm going to get slammed. If I do nothing, then I'm going to get slammed. So in the interest of finding a middle ground, here is a revision of the page that I would find worthy of inclusion. If another editor finds this acceptable, then he/she has my blessing to make this change for her/himself, but I will not make that change. Let some other editor get raked over the coals by fanatical pro-MOVErs.
John Africa (born Vincent Leaphart) was the founder of MOVE, a militant West Philadelphia organization prominent in the late 1960's. He died on May 13, 1985 during an attempted eviction of armed MOVE members from a West Philadelphia rowhouse by the Philadelphia Police Department. [3][4]
Mumia Abu-Jamal is a prominent follower of the teachings of John Africa. References
This Philadelphia-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
This biographical article about a United States activist is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. [[Category:People from Philadelphia|Africa, John]]
There, I've done the page creator's homework for her/him. Groupthink 09:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
