Talk:Joe Hockey

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More information about this article... The following comments have been left for this page: I dispute the neutrality of the bulk of this article. From the heading Curriculum Vitae" it appears to descend into the tone of a promotional re-election brochure. 59.167.253.111 07:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC) (edit)

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Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · history · watch · refresh) I dispute the neutrality of the bulk of this article. From the heading Curriculum Vitae" it appears to descend into the tone of a promotional re-election brochure. 59.167.253.111 07:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Cut and paste election material 1.1 Part 1 1.2 Part 2 2 Armenia 3 WikiProject class rating 4 Mike Bailey

[edit] Cut and paste election material

[edit] Part 1

This page is strongly biassed - much of it appears to be election campaign material. In particular, the CV section is copied-and-pasted directly from Joe Hockey's political web-site.

I agree, tag added. Cheers, WikiTownsvillian 08:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I have now cleaned up the article and deleted all the campaign info, both clean up and NPOV tags removed. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 08:49, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Part 2

Since we are getting rid of campaign material, can we please remove the YRAW caricature of Hockey? It is not appropriate for a BLP. --Surturz (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, if you gain consensus to do so. I believe it should stay as it was part of the your rights at work campaign, featuring the defacto minister for workchoices, arguably the biggest issue as to why his party lost at last year's election. Timeshift (talk) 03:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with it appearing in the Workchoices article (as it does), propaganda from both sides should appear there. But since this is a BLP and the image clearly makes fun of him, I don't think it should be here. I will also make the point that consensus is required for the inclusion of material, not its removal. --Surturz (talk) 03:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

But if removal is disputed, then consensus is required. Timeshift (talk) 04:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't work that way, Timeshift. Go read the policy. The image doesn't really belong in this article; it's derogatory, doesn't add to the article, and isn't notable in and of itself. Rebecca (talk) 04:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Please state where policy says consensus is required to include but not remove. But at least there are more opinions than Surturz now, and if it appears that the majority want it gone, then so it shall be. But let's see. Timeshift (talk) 04:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It is explicit on WP:CONS - look at the flow chart. Consensus is reached when no-one reverts or re-edits a particular section. Consensus means everyone should agree, not just a majority. --Surturz (talk) 04:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the removal, as it isn't about Joe Hockey (it's about a campaign). I'm not absolutely certain the image could add much to the campaign, but I'm not an expert in that area so will leave that call to others with more knowledge of YRAW and so on.

General comment: legalistic and narrow interpretations of consensus, which do not exist in the document anywhere, such as "consensus is needed to do this but not this" are entirely helpful and even counterproductive. Consensus clearly states we're all meant to work together. Sometimes that will be incredibly difficult, as polarisation can happen and two sides form who can't agree on anything for as much pride as any other reason. But we have to at least try. And making demands and false claims that those demands are based on policy do not actually help that process. Orderinchaos 04:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

"Consensus means everyone should agree" that is simply untrue. Timeshift (talk) 04:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

From WP:CONS...

"Developing consensus requires special attention to neutrality - remaining neutral in our actions in an effort to reach a compromise that everyone can agree on."

(emphasis mine). This would seem to suggest that consensus requires more than a simple majority. --Surturz (talk) 05:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Why delete the image? It's actually a good likeness of 'im - and I can assure you I have been up close and personal at the aircraft noise forums a few years back. I can't understand why you deletionistas get so worked up about things like this. The image is relevant to the page's subject and the caption places it clearly in context. It adds a bit of colour and it demonstrates that Hockey was effective enough in his role to be the subject of this sort of subversion. Albatross2147 (talk) 14:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like this image removed. The YRAW campaign was not a campaign instituted by Hockey, the image makes fun of him and should be removed as per WP:BLP. It already exists in the workchoices article, where it has more grounds for inclusion. It is hard to see how including election material is not POV --Surturz (talk) 22:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Armenia

Just popped in to revert some vandalism. I note inthe history there seems to be some edit reversions about Hockey's Armenian connections. I note that at http://www.missionarmenia.com/presentation_night.htm it is asserted Mr Hockey, whose father is of Armenian background, is the second Australian government minister (after the Hon. Phillip Ruddock) to have visited Armenia. During his visit in November 2005, Mr Hockey met with the Prime Minister and the Minister for Health. He also planted a memorial tree on the grounds of the Armenian Genocide Memorial in Yerevan, capital of Armenia. I note his website has no speeches listed for November 2005 when he visited Armenia or for this presentation night in November 2006.[1]. His maiden speech only refers to Armenia in the context of his electorate having the highest number of Armenians in the country.[2] However in an interview with Kerri-Anne Kennerly in June 2007 she refers to you took your father who was born in Bethlehem, Armenian, back to Palestine in 1998 - he does not contradict her and moreover the transcript is on his website [3] - I think therefore he could be said to be of Armenian background and it is not controvesial for him.--Golden Wattle ^talk 00:17, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Bailey

Is it really necessary to mention Hockey's electorate competitor in this article? Surely more suited in Division of North Sydney? Removed pending discussion. - arkenstone (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)