Talk:Javan Rhinoceros
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[edit] Removed unsourced section
I removed the following recently added long and unsourced section from the text. Proper references should be provided before any of it is reinserted. See WP:NOR and WP:RS
It would be maybe correct to notice, that the regions in which the Javan Rhinoceros was used to live, have been subject not only to hunt for their horns and blood, at least in the regions stretching from Laos, down through Vietnam. Indeed, it is hardly possible, that the illegal hunters have brought the species on the verge of extinction (despite the expansion of the market of rhinos' horns and blood, following to the enrichment of a small part of the society in the Asian South-East, collaborating with the Colonial power - these people are always curiously attracted by implausible qualities of exotic and rare substances) if we mind to remember that the whole region has been ruthlessly subjected to a bloody and terrorist series of wars, beginning right after World War II and ending in the late '70s - in its operations as open warfare covered by media. We must not forget the millions of tons of poisonous chemical substances, explosives, napalm which the American army had dropped in the whole region - from Laos to Vietnam, and up to Cambodia - from early '60s to late '70s.
How many rhinoceros had died, in that war?
We are usually keen to forget, even about the human victims - let alone the animals' ones - that we just notice that the same jungles and plains inhabited by Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian people, were also inhabited by innumerable animals, as the people killed in terrible deaths of fire or pain, or slow agonies by poisoning and starvation amidst deserted lands. It is most likely that the endangered conditions of Rhinoceros sondaicus are due, not only to merchants of horns' dust, which is a phenomena which could account not, for it, since, of course, it is traditional medicine and thus it is going on since long time, and never had brought the rhinos near to extinction, but, mainly to the effects on the environment and to the killings caused by the Imperialist War of the United States dubbed usually Vietnam War. The fault of the near extinction of Javan Rhinoceros is to blame on the West, and on the Western people which left the war unleash its unerring violence. --Merbabu 00:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, does this mean that someone else must already have made the connection between the dates, the numbers, and the regions? I mean, there is any need of reliable evidence to tell where the "Vietnam War" has been fought? And about it be a terrorist war, (meaning, as official Pentagon definition, conducted against the civilian population in order to achieve political or economical or social purposes) you can check on Noam Chomsky's American power and the New Mandarins (1968) Vintage, for example. But there is extensive bibliography about that. Wouldn't you agree if I tell, also, that by the late '30s extensive Colonial wars against the Movements of National Liberations have been fought in the same region, then WWII than Korea, then Cambodia, then Vietnam and Laos? This is, in my opinion, elementary history classes. For the relation with the population of rhinoceros, yet, I concede that no one of which I am acquainted has ever took a body count of animals, but, that cannot mean that there were no victims. Most likely, simply, no one ever cared to take a look or make the connection, but conflicts of such violence cannot really haven't provoked victims in the populations other than the human one.
- The reasons for this connection to be gone unnoticed I do not know and I'm not interested in knowing it, it is just an observation, made on reliable and common knowledge sources (the Wikipedia article included). I do not believe it is original research, because no research has been involved in the writing of the paragraph.Protagora 01:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
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- thank you for your reply. I'm in a rush now so I will just make a few quick comments. Most (all??) of what you need to know about reliable sources and original research is in the links I gave you on this page and also on that welcome notice. As for the Vietnam War, no references for the dates for the war are not necessary (although I suggest they would be on the Vietnam War page), although citations for the connection made between the War and Rhino numbers would certainly be required. Otherwise, the assumption is that it is personal musings and original research. The guidelines on WP:NOR also state that there should be no synthesis of published ideas to form new ideas. All ideas must be published ideas. I am sure some of what you wrote you can reference. Hope that helps. regards --Merbabu 01:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Contradiction
Why does the chart on the right indicate this species as of least concern when the first sentence states that it is extemely rare and in danger.
[edit] Removed photograph
I have removed the photograph because it is showing an Indian Rhinoceros in its typical habitat. --Melly42 20:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] News sources to be added
I looked these sources up this evening and am leaving them here for now as I figure out which to integrate into the article. --JayHenry 05:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merge proposal
I'm proposing to merge the subspecies articles for Indian Javan Rhinoceros, Vietnamese Javan Rhinoceros and Indonesian Javan Rhinoceros into this article. The subspecies really only differ in terms of conservation history; virtually everything known about the species comes from the Indonesian subspecies. We can deal comprehensively with all subspecies in this article whereas to write a comprehensive article at the subspecies level would consist almost entirely of redundant content. To be clear, I am proposing to delete absolutely no information, merely to merge everything into one place so that it is better organized, better sourced (few sources deal with the subspecies individually), and better contextualized. --JayHenry 05:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- Strong support - makes no sense having five disjointed articles. Deal with them all together - people tire of having to click on linked articles. --Merbabu 07:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- Support. No need to create sub-species, unless the topic reaches substantial article size. — Indon (reply) — 11:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Captured on film
The following news article may be of interest to the authors of this page: Rarest rhinoceros wrecks camera, BBC News. Mgiganteus1 (talk) 10:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- Another article, telling about the study which was being conducted, also featuring the footage: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/05/29/rare-javan-rhino.html
[edit] Photo
Can we change the first photo to one that doesn't seem to glorify the killing of these animals? Given their status and the terrible over hunting that occurs, I agree that the photo should stay, but let's put a more appropriate endearing photo first. Whoever put that there had their head in the clouds. --Bentonia School (talk) 03:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, here's the thing -- it's all about copyright. The problem is that there are no photos of this animal that are not protected by copyright. This was the only photo of the animal taken before 1923, which is when copyright laws kick in to effect. If you have a picture of a Javan Rhinoceros, that you've taken yourself, we can use it. But there are only 50 in the world and none are in zoos, so taking their pictures is quite tricky :) --JayHenry (talk) 04:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
