Talk:Ithna-'Ashariyya

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The page Jafari contains info about the Twelvers, as these are interchangeable terms. One of these two pages are thus redundant. I suggest that the text in Jafari is incorporated into this text and that the Jafari page redirects to the Twelver page.

Maybe you can merge them and list one for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for Deletion - Texture 16:55, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Merging 2 Lebanon? 3 Typography - Use of Glottal Stop Symbol 4 Name 5 Nice Article 6 Percentages are confusing 7 democracy!!!

[edit] Merging

I've merged the Jafari article into the Twelver article, and added new info. I set the Jafari page to redirect to the Twelver page. I have not added the Jafari article to the votes for deletions page as the term is very common and is thus suitable for redirecting.

[edit] Lebanon?

Aren't the Shi'ites in Lebanon also Twelvers? My understanding was that when Shah Ismail wanted to convert Persia to Shi'ism, he had to import imams from Lebanon, and that it was the previous center of Twelver Shi'ism...at any rate, that should probably be mentioned. john k 07:26, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't know, but the story tells us that the Shia of lebanon are in fact decendents of the Iranian merchants who went and settled there.Babakexorramdin 17:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

My understanding was that Shah Ismail got Twelver Shiites from Lebanon to help him convert Iran in the 16th century. john k 21:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

This would be very unlikely, because he had to go through the territories of the Ottoman Empire in a time when Safavids were not at their top and the Ottomans were much more powerfull. Iran under Shah Abbas was powerfull and for a time had conquered Iraq. I do not know where this story has come from, but I have not come across it in the Persian sources. Safavid's ancestor Sh. Safi himself had established a Shiite school of thought in Iran. Safavids, before getting too strobg-relied on the military services of Turkic-speaking tribes which were driven out of Anatolia. I believe that these tribes were related to the Alevi of Syria and Turkey, in a way or other. And I believe that most likely the first version of Safavid Shiism was some kind of Sufi shiism and not very different from Alevism, and also ismaili as they were widespread in Iran. But later on the more conservative elements within clergy wins and twelver is establisghed. Just to note that the twelve Imam tradition is also present within Alevism. they however do not rely so much oon clergy. The clergy again was at work to secure its position in Iran. Like they did during the Sassanid times. Babakexorramdin 10:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Of what I've learned, yes, the shi'as of Syria have been around much longer than the current Iranian population:) --Muslimguy 77 05:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The Shia of Syria are Alevi, like those in Turkey. However Turkey does have a Twelver Shia population, in Kars and Ardahan region, where the rural people still speak Azeri. Babakexorramdin 17:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

In the first part of this article, it refers to the twelvers being "orthodox" Shia. I think that's a bit ambiguous, are they or aren't they?

They are the "mainstream" denomination with the largest population, and the least divergence from Sunnism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.254.34 (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Typography - Use of Glottal Stop Symbol

It's really avant-garde to be using this glottal stop symbol in normal running text: ˤ

Wikipedia is not supposed to innovate -- but follow mainstream academic practices.

This is obviously not an English alphabet character and should be replaced by the normally-used apostrophe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.254.34 (talk) 09:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Name

Should this article be at Twelver instead? It seems to me like it should be, but I'm no expert and there's every chance that Twelvers might come under the exceptions to the singulars-in-titles convention. -- Perey 17:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This article should be under the name that is used by Twelver Shia Muslims which is "Ithna Ashariyyah". Armyrifle 13:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice Article

Nice Article, lots of good information. As a history major a lot of this I already knew but there were a couple interesting bits of new knowledge that seem legitimate. I'd like there to be more sourcing though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.227.246 (talk) 17:08, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Percentages are confusing

The percentages in the article are confusing because it does not say who is included. For example, in Iran, does Ithna-'Ashariyya make up 90% of the entire population (Muslim and non-Muslim), Muslims only, or Shia Muslims only? I checked the source of the percentages, but it was not clear either. -- Kjkolb 23:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] democracy!!!

This is mentioned as a difference between the Shi'a and Sunni which does not seem to be true: "Moreover, according to Shīˤa, an Imam or a Caliph can not be democratically elected and has to be nominated by God." To the best of my knowledge, Omar, the second caliph, is selected by Abubakr, the first caliph and not by an election! Othman, third caliph, is also selected in another way. Therefore, apparently we can mention this as a difference between Shi'a and Sunni. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.128.138.228 (talk) 01:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)