Talk:Italian Communist Party
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[edit] NPOV
I'm sure the person who wrote this thinks they bent over backwards in being scrupulously fair; but they could've bent backwards just a little more... So at some point there needs to be added here the dirty tricks campaign waged by CIA and friends in the first postwar elections -- which is basically why the PCI lost them. This will add some balance to what the original author went into detail about later, during the "White Coup", Gladio period.
As well, there is a reference to abstract (Western) "Democracy"[sic] which implies the usual: that there's something specially democratic about the bourgeois variety of democracy. Which there isn't. So that particular section needs to have this qualified as "bourgeois democracy" or some such.
I will get to changing this above stuff later, if someone else doesn't first.
Pazouzou 23:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Complete revision urgently necessary !!!
Would somebody PLEASE go and change this site ?!?
Besides its unbearably anti-communist stance it contains a host of factual errors that definitely should be corrected.
A few examples:
1. There has never been a "definite break" with Moscow (i.e. the CPSU and the Soviet Union) - neither in 1979 nor later (until the dissolution of the original PCI in 1991). The PCI was partly critical of the Soviet Union and the other socialist countries and maintained some special ideological positions but nevertheless remained part of the international communist movement and upheld its friendship (in a form of "critical solidarity") with the CPSU and the other ruling communist parties.
2. Eurocommunism is a very ambiguous term covering the quite distinct, controversial and internally conflicting policies of some Western European communist parties in the 70s and 80s, especially in Spain, France and Italy. Those parties NEVER had a common program accepted by all and were constantly at odds with each other. For example, the PCI never went only half as far in dismissing traditional communist principles as the CP of Spain. The term "Eurocommunism" (originating in the beginning from anti-communist corcles) should therefore at best be totally avoided. And most importantly: Eurocommunism despite all its special traits is absolutely NOT identical to Social Democracy. Therefore the assertion made in the article about the PCI "definitely embracing social-democracy and the Socialist International" is ridiculous. The PCI (again: for all its differing views in detail) did NEVER become a social-democratic party or even a member of the Socialist International.
3. The strange gossip about the Czechoslovak secret service supporting and financing the Red Brigades should either be verified beyond doubt (which will be impossible) or - even better - be deleted. The Italian version does not contain this nonsense. The same holds true for the rumors about the "Stasi", the KGB and training in clandestine warfare. Even if this would have been the case it must be related to the political situation in Italy at that time.
4. Pazouzou has in his or her comment (see above) already mentioned the overall prejudices about bourgeois democracy, the role of the CIA and so on. All this should also be considered in a total revision of the article on the PCI.
[edit] About Mitrokhin
Please note that the parliamentary research (based on a ex-communist majority) didn't find any proof of the truth of it. On the other side Gorbachev, who spontaneously presented himself in Italy as witness, has never been listened. For the moment we can't say that Mitrokhin said the truth, as we can't said that he said the false. Therefore I strongly suggest:
a) To maintain the sentence: "According to Mitrokhin, the party asked the Soviets to pressure the Czechoslovakian State Security (StB) to withdraw their support to the group, which Moscow was unable or unwilling to do.[1]"
b) To restore the paragraph: "- Mitrokhin reports financing of the Italian Communist Party from the Soviet-Union between 1971 and 1977 as follows: - - * 1971: 1,600,000 USD - * 1972: 5,200,000 USD - * 1974: 10,500,000 USD - * 1976: 6,500,000 USD - * 1977: 1,000,000 USD"
Regarding point b): we can't know if it corrispond to truth or not. Sure we know that the PCI has been accused many times of having received funds from the soviets; all attemps to find the truth has been blocked by the old italian powers, which are, by the case, linked to the PCI (PCI itself, magistracy, etc). Therefore it is important to mention the reporting of Mitrokhin, of course as a reporting of him and not as a verified truth. The PCI has been during all his history accused to be the hand of the soviets in Italy, and during the terror years it has been accused of being the nice side of terror. Often it has even act as if it was. Only after the murder of Prime Minister Moro the italian communist party acted against terror. --151.27.23.141 14:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
- The "Mithrokin commission" was created by the old centre-right majority in 2002, and it didn't have an "ex-communist majority". Also, PCI never went to government, and the first Italian government with former communists in Italy was the Prodi government in 1996. To tell that "attemps to find the truth has been blocked by the old italian powers, which are, by the case, linked to the PCI (PCI itself, magistracy, etc)" is just spreading right-wing FUD. The PCI was never on the nice side of terror; in facts, the extra-parliamentary left (extra-parliamentary for a reason), who originated all of the armed groups, was always opposed to the PCI line, since the end of the '60, well before the Moro kidnapping. GhePeU 17:40, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Mithrokin's documents and Andrew's work is very clear: the PCI from just shortly after WWII until the late 70's was on Moscow's gravy trains to the tune of several million dollars a year. As Ghepeu pointed out though, the PCI was upset with the Red Brigades, and more so with Moscow’s continuing support of them, and this was the issue thatr started to drive the wedge between Moscow and the PCI. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 18:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] PCI and PDS
In 1991, 14 monthes after the falling of the Berlin Wall the PCI disbanded to form the Partito Democratico della Sinistra (PDS). What's wrong with it? The falling of the Berlin wall and the countings of the citizens of the DDR about their conditions under communism WAS the reason of the changing of name (and, later, even the symbol). --151.27.23.141 14:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] PCI Funding
The information that the PCI was recieving money from the Soviets it not restricted to Mitrokhin, as he is one of a number of sirces (including the PCI) who have confromed this, Mitrokhin’s contributions is in the precise numbers that Moscow gave to the PCI. This is really not as controversial as you would like to portray it. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 14:45, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Italian coup attempt
For info see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese (or the italian wiki http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese ) and (in italian) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Solo
[edit] Sources needed
I removed:
- After the Athens Colonel Coup in April of 1967, Longo and other PCI leaders became alarmed at the possibility of a repeat in Italy (there was two attempted coup in Italy in the 1964 and 1970 by neo-fascist and military groups). Giorgio Amendola formally requested Soviet assistance to prepare the party in case of such an event. The KGB drew up and implemented a plan to provide the PCI with its own intelligence and clandestine signal corps. From 1967 through 1973, PCI members were sent to East Germany and Moscow to receive training in clandestine warfare and information gathering techniques by both the Stasi and the KGB. Shortly before the May 1972 elections, Longo personally wrote to Leonid Brezhnev asking for, and receiving and additional $5.7 million in funding. This was on top of the 3.5 million that the PCI was given in 1971. The Soviets also provided additional funding through the use of front companies providing generous contracts to PCI members.
and
- Relationships also were strained as Czechoslovakian State Security (StB) support for the Italian Red Brigade increased. The PCI was uncomfortable with the Red Brigade’s tactics, and after the kidnapping and murder of Christian-democrat party leader Aldo Moro in 1978, the PCI asked the Soviets to pressure the Czech StB to withdraw support, which Moscow was unable or unwilling to do.
This kind of statements should be adequately supported by sources. GhePeU 10:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- I replaced it an added the sources. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 12:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
1. Thank you, Ghepeu for your work in deleting the passages in question.
2. Since I do never pay any attention to TDC, I will not respond to him. But my statement above is of course still valid and the removal of the passages as well as a total revision on the PCI article is as necessary as ever.
--62.178.194.203 14:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
- A brief response: too bad. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 17:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
If the source is Mitrokihn, in Italy the 8 year Parliamentary research commission and the magistracy didn't found any proof of the truth of the Mitrokihn documents.. but the contents of this documnet (like this statements) was heavily instrumentalized by the Berlusconi's party in every electoral campaign and the right-party member of the Parliamentary commission use varius quibbles to delay for months the final report.
