Template talk:Infobox Dogbreed

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Test case here: Template:Infobox Dogbreed/test. Elf | Talk 22:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've done an overhaul of this template to make all data points optional. Here is the usage:

{{Infobox Dogbreed 
<!-- Put article text AFTER this infobox markup. See: -->
<!-- Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Templates for more info.-->
|name= ...
|image= ...
|image_caption= ...
|altname= ... <br> ... <br>
|nickname= ... <br> ... <br>
|country= ...
|fcigroup= ... 
|fcisection= ... 
|fcinum= ...
|fcistd= ...
|akcgroup= ...
|akcstd= ...
|ankcgroup= ...
|ankcstd= ...
|ckcgroup= ... 
|ckcstd= ...
|kcukgroup= ...
|kcukstd= ...
|nzkcgroup= ...
|nzkcstd= ...
|ukcgroup= ...
|ukcstd= ...
|notrecognized= ...
|akcfss= ...
|akcmisc= ...
|ckcmisc= ...
|extinct= ...
|note= ...
|}}  

• All paramaters are optional except for name
• All paramaters for each kennel club are required if any are used at all.
• If the breed is not recognized by any major kennel club, the notrecognized variable should be set (to anything) else the table will look strange.
• Altnames and nicknames have to be on one line with a bunch of <br> entries separating them.

- Trysha ^(talk) 20:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Cool stuff! I'm excited about maybe actually getting this implemented--. I see that currently for each kennel club, comments say that all fields are req'd--so what happens if you know that it's registered for, e.g., FCI (because it's in a list) but you can't find a copy of the stds to link to? Could we have some standard text to insert instead like "link needed" (too long--need no more than 3-4 chars probably). Thanks! Elf | Talk 00:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I think your solution of inserting a ? is the best thing that we can do for now. it doesn't break the table, I am told that they don't like us using if defined and other server intensive processes templates, so this is a good hack to make this work. I wonder if Netaholic can make a suggestion here? - Trysha ^(talk) 09:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Discussion moved from dog breeds project 1.1 Thoughts 2 multi-standards for a given dog 3 AKC FSS text 4 New Problem - CKC Misc Class 5 Alignment of kennel club names 6 Terrier Group links 7 Another template to-do question 8 Should we move akcfss/akcmisc/cksmisc under the group? 9 extinct dogs 10 Format of photos 11 Minor modification to the template (consensus needed) 12 JKC standards

[edit] Discussion moved from dog breeds project

[edit] Thoughts

OK, now that I'm seeing it really in action:

• The image needs a "none" alignment or it ends up off to one side. (See this version of Aidi.)

• This is strange, the template does have a "none" in it, that is confusing to me. We'll have to take a look at it.

• I think that the alternative names should come before country of origin; they serve usually as an alternative to listing all the names in the text at the beginning of the article (although that's also sometimes done) and with some hot political issues, I don't think we want to place too much emphasis on the country.

• I agree, I've fixed that. One nice thing about the template, the order does not matter in the articles - only the order in the template matters.

• If stds link is missing, we shd have some standard text to fill in (a) because it's required or the whole kennel club line doesn't show up and (b) we ought to be consistent. Maybe just a "?"? (See the 08:22, 3 January 2006 version of Affenpinscher.) (Or, hmm, maybe define a macro to insert, so e.g.:

  |ckcstd={{dogstdmissing}}

• Sadly, i think your question mark idea is the best one. The code is too limited, as you aren't supposed to use things like if defined....

• And how about a nested template also for the standard AKC FSS text to go in the notes section, something like:

  |notes={{akcfss}}  (can find text in many breed tables--is usually consistent but not always)

• That's a good idea, but i think it might be nice to treat it like the notrecongized keyword, we can have an akcfss keyword, it will drop in the boilerplate text in the apropos section. This way we don't have to trying to parse the notes tag if we need to make bot-related changes later. Besides, I am told that they don't like you if you use templates that use templates.

Otherwise, this is looking so good! That's all for now-- Elf | Talk 08:26, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, keep the comments coming! I'm in the process of writing a converter. But it's manual. I pipe the old breed table into it, and it gives me the template. I paste, preview, and then fix any irregularities in the script. I am very sad to that there is so much variance in the breed tables - they are ALL OVER THE PLACE in syntax. I figure by the time I get to "C" it will be good enough to automate, but maybe not even then. - Trysha ^(talk) 09:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] multi-standards for a given dog

I was looking at the daschund changes, and thinking about it last night, for dogs that have more than one standard, but only are in one group we could do something like this for each of the kennel clubs:

| akcstd2 = URLTOWIREHARE | akcstddesc2 = Wirehaired Niffler | akcstd3 = URLTOLONGHAIR | akcstddesc3 = Long Hair Niffler

Of course, that's kind of ugly in the template but can be nice on the dog page, looking like what we had before.

I cannot imagine more than 4 variants, so we could setup variants for each of the kennel clubs, so it wouldn't expand /that/ much, but I wonder if there is a nice way to do that without having a ton of cut and paste code. - Trysha ^(talk) 18:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a very rare occurrence--I think it happens on only 2 breed pages, dachshund and I can't remember which other one at the moment. Is it worth it to clutter up the template for those? Maybe there's a better way to do it--move multiple breed variants into separate tables and instead of a URL in the main table say "see xxx table" or some such? We could think about it while you work on all the normal cases and leave those til last to see how many there really are and what the requirements are. Elf | Talk 19:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Jack Russell Terrier is another with multiple links, but I'd really like to try separating them, since the goal I *think* was to eventually make them separate pages... maybe I'll go dink with that now. Elf | Talk 22:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Never mind on the JRTs; they had already been separated but not very well. Sort of like in real life (e.g., I think that UKC's "russell" and "jack russell" are = AKC's "jack russell" and "parson russel", yes in that order. hmph. Elf | Talk 23:09, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AKC FSS text

I'm still trying to think of a way to add standard AKC FSS text, namely "The AKC Foundation Stock Service is for beeds working towards full recognition". Could we just add one more item like the notrecognized, like akcfss=foo, where you just have to specify anything and it inserts the correct text in the Notes box? Elf | Talk 19:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep, that's pretty much trivial, and I just did it :) Simply add an "akcfss" = STUFF. If you do this, it will add a "FSS entry" to the breed table (and a link to the FSS section of the AKC site), as well as a description of what the FSS is in the notes section. Not sure I am happy with the implementation though, as hiddenStructure won't let you do an OR - so the NOTES titlebar won't appear automatically, it will be in the notes section if it is there, and if it is not there - it will be at the bottom of the breed and classification section. Should we put it at the bottom of the breed/classification table to be consistent? - Trysha ^(talk) 21:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Here is an example of an FSS breed that has no note. Appenzeller_Sennenhund . - Trysha ^(talk) 22:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Because AKC does in fact have individual breed pages for FSS dogs (e.g., http://www.akc.org/breeds/appenzeller_sennenhunde/index.cfm), I think we shd just plan on including those as usual with akcstd. Hence I added the link to the "FSS" explanatory text in the template--but you did this clever thing where making it FSS automatically overrides the ackstd setting and I didn't want to undo that without discussing it first. However--adding akcstd when the group is set to FSS ends up giving you two?? entries to AKC in the table (see current Appenzeller Sennenhund), so there's another reason for not doing it the clever way. You're getting good at this template thing! :-)

I haven't decided how I feel about whether it shd still go below the notes or in the breed stds. Maybe other people have a preference? Elf | Talk 22:58, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, i didn't especially like it, but I'm not nearly clever enough yet :) - I took out the double AKC link, so adding akcfss variable just the boilerplate text at the bottom - maybe we can just have people put "FSS" into the "akcgroup" line (FSS Hounds). I'm tempted to drag out the conditional templates, but they may set me on fire if I did that. So far, i've done all the "A" dogs except for a new problem - Trysha ^(talk) 23:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Problem - CKC Misc Class

So, now we have the CKC misc class, there is no group number. I really like having the group number as a variable. Maybe we can have a separate variable for now such as (ckcmisc ckcmiscstd), and sort it out later with a bot. That would be pretty easy once all the breeds are templated. We could even set ckcmisc to have a note in the notes section at the end like the akcfss does. - Trysha ^(talk) 23:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Rather than having separate variables, how about just inventing a group number? We could call it "8" or how about "M"? Elf | Talk 00:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep I like M because no one will ever use that. I've implemented the switch statment to take this into account. Now waiting to hear if this is a terrible thing, and we should do it some other way. - Trysha ^(talk) 00:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alignment of kennel club names

I liked the kennel club names (FCI etc.) left-aligned with each other rather than centered in the column as they are now. Don't you think so? Elf | Talk 23:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree, and I've fixed it - I also centered the notes section. - Trysha ^(talk) 23:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terrier Group links

Hey, while I'm thinking of ways for you to spend your time so that you can't do what you really want to be doing ;-), is there a way to automatically include links to the FCI Terrier Group when it's group 3 and Terrier Group when others are Terrier or Terriers? As I've added to, for example, Australian Terrier. Elf | Talk

It seems that you can do this sort of thing automatically like this, check out the last edit, that's how you can automatically set the group link - I wonder if using the switch template is considered bad (cpu usage) - Trysha ^(talk) 23:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool! Guess we should find out what's evil before we plan on using this everywhere, huh? Elf | Talk 23:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep. I would ask User:Netaholic but it looks like he got blocked - So I'll ask on the village pump. I have to go home now, so I'll do that in a bit. - Trysha ^(talk) 23:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

That would be User:Netoholic. I don't see anything on user's talk page about being blocked...? Elf | Talk 00:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC

There was some sort of strangeness going on there where he got blocked then unblocked - oh well, maybe i've misread - i've asked on his page. I'd really like to be able to use the {{switch}} statement, that will make standardizing those links much much easier, and will eliminate a lot of variables. - Trysha ^(talk) 00:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll be happy to help, but let me ask a question or two. In checking out the specifics of this, I couldn't help but think that the article on FCI Terrier Group didn't really strike me as necessary. Essentially, it just recapitulates FCI's definition and content here on WP. Wouldn't it be better to just merge FCI Terrier Group into Terrier Group and present it that way? -- Netoholic @ 00:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That was just one question, not "or two". ;-) This question has been hashed before. See Talk:Terrier and probably continue the discussion there after reading the history linked from there, if you really want to. But that's something that we could also decide on later and adjust the template accordingly, right? Elf | Talk 02:50, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The other questions depended on the answer to the first ;). Due to the WP:AUM policy, we're actively trying to get rid of any "template within a template", that includes the {{switch}}. My suggestion for the time being would be to setup "fcigroup" just like "akcgroup" and in the individual Terrier articles define "| fcigroup = [[FCI Terrior Group|3]]". -- Netoholic @ 03:50, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, i guess the big question is this - if we cannot use {{switch}}, then we have to drop group numbers for the ckc and nzkc, and hope and prey that people put the entries in correctly. Are there no legal ways to do conditionals? An alternate hiddenStructure that took two arguments would be a very nice thing to have, (one with an and and one with an or). Fortunantly, it is pretty easy to write a bot to do that once things are all templated. - Trysha ^(talk) 16:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, having a simple bot replace "fcigroup = 3" with "fcigroup = [[FCI Terrior Group|3]]" and the like would be quite easy, as would just opening up the articles in a tabbed browser and running quickly through them. Doing them would probably take one run-through every couple months. A more complex bot could do the maintenance as well. -- Netoholic @ 08:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another template to-do question

OK, I got my FSS and Misc Group text mixed up. So I fixed the FSS text. But is there a way, if akcgroup= "Miscellaneous" to insert the text "The AKC Miscellaneous class is for breeds working towards full recognition." , likewise if ckcgroup="Miscellaneous", to insert "The CKC Miscellaneous..." etc? Or do we need 2 more variables like akcmisc=yes and ckcmisc=yes? Elf | Talk 20:25, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

We could do this by adding an "akcmisc" variable like the akcfss variable, I think we should also have a ckcmisc variable as well. It is sad that we cannot add boilerplate text in any other way than a throwaway variable like that. I wish we could do tests on a variable's contents - but that is too much server load. - Trysha ^(talk) 21:09, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I added the ckcmisc and akcmisc variables - maybe you can come up with a better wording? - Trysha ^(talk) 21:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. Elf | Talk 00:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we move akcfss/akcmisc/cksmisc under the group?

I am wondering, should we move the akcfss/akcmisc boilerplate text underneath the akc table, rather than as notes at the end? Maybe something like this:—Preceding unsigned comment added by Trysha (talk • contribs)

Classification and breed standards
AKC:	FSS (hound)	Stds
	The AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS) is an optional recording service for purebred dogs that are not yet eligible for AKC registration.
CKC:	Dogs with big Noses	Stds

I was actually starting to think along those lines myself, but hadn't quite gotten there yet. I like it, now that I see it executed. And I want to see what dogs are in the Big Nose group. Elf | Talk 00:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The big nose group would have basset hounds and bloodhounds [1].  :) I converted the akcfss part of the tabel. You can check it on Norwegian Buhund (as a random one). - Trysha ^(talk) 01:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I moved the akcmisc, akcfss, and ckcmisc underneath the proper breed standard. Trysha ^(talk) 19:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] extinct dogs

I added an extinct tag to the dogbreed template when converting the Extinct Dog Breeds category. - Trysha ^(talk) 16:42, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I saw that. Good one. Elf | Talk 17:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Format of photos

We've been over this in the past and I don't know where the discussions were. SOmeone has once again removed the thumb format and put some other format onto it. I put it back to thumb because this wasn't someone who's done anything in the dog breeds area. However, I know that some people think the thumb is an unclean look. Can people please express their preferences? Here are some options...

• Option 1 is what other user changed it to briefly
• Option 2 is what it was yesterday, and now, and for most of dog-breed-project history
• Option 3 is what the "official" template on the dog-breed-project page was listed as; another outside-the-project change that no one seemed to use

Note only the format of the photo within the outer frame and the caption. Elf | Talk 18:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Brittany (option 1) Image:BrittanySpanielMrwill.jpg Brittany puppy Alternative names Altname

Brittany (option 2, thumb, current) Image:BrittanySpanielMrwill.jpg Brittany puppy Alternative names Altname

Brittany (option 3; old semiofficial) Image:BrittanySpanielMrwill.jpg Brittany puppy Alternative names Alternative name Alternative name

• option 2. I like the thumb because users get the icon they can click to see a larger version of the photo, which isn't obvious at all in nonthumb formats. Elf | Talk 17:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
• option 2. I'm with you. I like option 2 for the same reasons you do.The Dogfather 02:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
• Option 2 - non-computer geeks get it. Also like the caption look. Quill 08:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
• Number 2 - I like the current style. - Trysha ^(talk) 03:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
• Option 3 - Remove the thumb, standarize per Taxobox template. Joelito 20:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
• Option 3 - Thumbnail border looks foolish in a table. Percy Snoodle 12:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I just made that choice a whole lot easier. I removed the |thumb| from the coding. Thumbnailed images inside an infobox just don't look right. Besides, the |250px| code covers it.--Kross^Talk 22:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You can't just remove the |thumb| without redoing the table somewhat - you lose all those captions - besdies, we had 4 votes for number 2 (caption) and two for number 3 (as you changed edited it - so it seems that consensus was the other way) - if you are gonna change it, you should at least continue the discussion here. - Trysha ^(talk) 05:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor modification to the template (consensus needed)

I'd like to remove the categorisation under Category:Dog breeds from the template. This category has become badly overpopulated and I'm trying to make the navigation more user-friendly by moving existing categories of grouped dog breeds (Category:Hounds, Category:Companion dogs, Category:Herding dogs, etc.) under Category:Dog breeds, so that a user going there can find the dogs by group first. When this process is done, all dog breeds that are placed in any more specific category will be in the category tree under Category:Dog breeds. As long as the template automatically adds each dog-breed page to the top-level category, though, the benefits of grouping are negated.

I don't want to be presumptuous and just modify the template without any input, so I'm calling out to see if there are any objections. --7Kim 01:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] JKC standards

We should add the Japan Kennel Club classifications to our existing list in this template. Exploding Boy (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)