Talk:Hume Highway

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hume Highway article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Portal	Hume Highway is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
B	This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Melbourne.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Sydney.
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

This article is part of WikiProject Highways, a project which is dedicated to providing information about highways around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

any sydneysider or melburnian care to contribute a Hume strip map?

The Australian government uses Crown copyright, and so, unlike in the US, there is not exactly a wealth of public domain maps of Australia for use on Wikipedia. --Robert Merkel 00:59, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 other alternatives besides Princes 2 Engineered Speed Limit 3 Semantic distinction: 4 Coolac by pass 5 Coolac Bypass Nonsense 6 A31 7 Hume and Hovell 8 Coolac massacre - Reliable sources 9 Mittagong bypass 10 Old Names For Localities 11 Bypass developments October 2006 12 Should we nominate this article? 13 most important and notable interstate highway? 14 Enforcement of speed limits 15 Royal Parade

[edit] other alternatives besides Princes

There are other alternative routes that are IMHO even more beautiful, if even longer, than the Princes Highway, for instance it's possible to take the King Valley road from Wangaratta to Mansfield, and the Midland thereafter. On the New South Wales side, it's also possible to go through Canberra and the Snowys to reach Corryong, then to Albury. Hence my edit. --Robert Merkel 01:50, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Engineered Speed Limit

I remember hearing that the Victorian side of the highway was engineered for 130km/h, anybody know of a reference for this? It certainly explains why 110k's seems like such a crawl on some streches.. --Commking 04:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, its lanes are wider, straighter, and certainly less trafficked than most of the autobahns in Germany. You'd probably have to go digging through VicRoads documents to find that kind of information; a friend's father recently retired from VicRoads and might just know where such documents might be hidden...--Robert Merkel 04:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to find out. I imagine it would be politically sensitive for Vicroads to come out and say that 130kmh is what they had in mind... --Commking 04:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semantic distinction:

The graphic for Victoria is evidently manufactured by a NSWelshman - I've never seen a highway in Victoria referred to as 'National'. Heh. They're all simply designated M, A, B or C level routes with a number. A Victorian Hume Highway sign then, simply reads M31, same as the Princes' is designated M1. This map would indicate more correctly the victorian designation. [1]

But hey, this point IS more or less irrelevant, so I have no idea why I feel compelled to point this out. --TheShadowDawn 12:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The 'National' sign is obsolete and about to be replaced in NSW --Grahamec 00:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Dont national get national funding rather than State?

[edit] Coolac by pass

From the minutes of the Wagga Wagga Council Policy and Strategy Committee of 13 June 2006 [2]

QS-19 COOLAC BYPASS Councillor B Andrews advised that whilst attending the Shires Conference he had the opportunity to raise the issue of the Coolac By-Pass with the Member of Wagga Wagga Mr Daryl Maguire. Councillor B Andrews was advised that the Wiradjuri people had no objection to the by-pass and that the State Minister was blaming everybody else for the delay.

Councillor B Andrews suggested that an email be sent to The Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport Mr John Watkins and the Federal Minister for Transport and Regional Services Mr Warren Truss advising them of the people that have been killed or seriously maimed on this section of the Hume Highway. Councillor B Andrews advised that he has the email addresses.

The Mayor thanked Councillor B Andrews for his comments.

• This topic has been debated elsewhere - most notably Talk:Gundagai, New South Wales. It seems there no heritage reason to stop the construction. --A Y Arktos\^talk 01:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• From ABC News of August 2005, The head of the Brungle Tumut Land Council, Margaret Berg, says the Land Council has already researched the cultural sites and developed a plan to protect them. Shes said her community wants the Coolac bypass started and is upset at outside calls for a new study of cultural sites along the planned route. The Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) has agreed to Wiradjuri man Neville Williams' call to do a second survey.--A Y Arktos\^talk 11:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• As at May 2006: RTA's report circulating - A report into the historical significance of the areas designated for the Coolac bypass has been circulated. Neville Williams a Wiradjuri elder asked for the study and said that the ‘ball is in the RTA's court and it is up to them to decide when work commences’.AIATSIS Native Title Newsletter May/June 2006 (pdf) The RTA site provides no update. [3] However, in April 2006, ABC News reported that The RTA has now decided to engage a specialist from the Australian Museum to do more survey work to resolve remaining Aboriginal heritage issues. In a statement quoting an unnamed spokesman, the RTA says this latest process is expected to take some months before tenders will be let.[4]--A Y Arktos\^talk 11:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coolac Bypass Nonsense

ANYONE who had a genuine interest in the 'Salvage or Destroy Indigenous Sites' process re the Coolac Bypass, could have registered an interest and been fully informed re what was happening. The advertised calls for registrants, was in the press. NOT 1 person from Wagga Council registered, certainly no Andrews person whoever that is. NOT 1 person from Gundagai Council registered. Barely anyone registered. To compound this, (lets say they didnt realise and for that first lot of surveys given the publicity re Coolac Bypass, they needed time to become aware), for the next lot of surveys for the Sheahan Bridge AGAIN none of them registered. They chose not to. Some people then try and stir whatever than can, however they can, making up total nonsense re stuff they know nil about at their own doing as they DID NOT register to know, quoting some flea bitten unknown re stuff. Some people get on here making up idiotic nonsense abotu stuff they have even less idea about and sprout it as they they have authority re it. Its pretty banal.

Its just as well that Neville Williams asked for further surveys at Coolac as, as a result of it, highly significant archaeology has been found. This archaeology is important to all Australians, not just to Indigenous people. Tumut Brungle Land Council people worked on the extra surveys so it went in their favour also as they earned money from the fieldwork plus also got the chance to find out more about lost aspects of their culture.

They are just nnoyed about 'outside' peopel coming in but Neville Williams is very local and acknowledged as thta by Marg berg on ABC Radio. Coolac is Neville family home country and I also know from my family, Nevilles family to be THE family for that area.

Whatever, heaps more archaeology has been found at Coolac. The initial surveys were only basic ones whereas the more recent surveys have been more thorough.

No one at anytime was protesting the bypass being put through but there is a requirement that proper EIS' are carried out, and now they have been/are being.

Its really really good that Neville Williams' effort resulted in those surveys. His effort has resulted in heaps more being known re Australia's prehistory and all should give him a 'very well done' for that.

Who wants to deny Indigenous culture, its rights under Oz law? I certainly do not. However, its also cultural heritage stuff that Australia loses, if its lost. All of Oz i.e. not just some of Oz.

I also know that some authorites dont disclose stuff if those with a reg interest seemingly do not know stuff. I was at a meeting recently where that happened with me disputing something said, then the whole meeting knew from what I said, re what I said, then what I said went missing from the Minutes, but then artefacts were acknowledged 'the whole way along' and that passed on to me, and I would like to know who has had those artefacts since 1970s as the Indigenous people or the Australian Museum, didn't it seems - as Oz law legislates is to happen.

Its amazing the aggro that Indigenous heritage stirs up. I fail to understand it but know that not all think how I do re Indigneous people, heritage and culture.

Wagga Council is totally nil to do with this stuff. Who cares what they think. They need to tend their own Council given its under investigation rather than carrying on about stuff 100k awat from their capitol that is nil to do with them and that they could NOT have had any real interest in as they DID NOT register an interest in it.

[edit] A31

The A31 logo looks very nice, but this system has not been introduced in NSW yet, and there is no date yet announced for its introduction. Quaidy 04:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

We've had M31 signs on the Hume Freeway in Albury (in NSW) for the past twelve months. As far as I know there's been no grand announcement, it's already being phased in. Same deal with the Riverina Hwy signs showing it as the B58. Graham (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The Hume is certainly not the only one to get such signage phased in. --Athol Mullen (talk) 08:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hume and Hovell

Why would they have a road that was named after Hume from the Hume an dHovell expedition, go a different direction to where its claimed on wik, that Hume and Hovell travelled. By rights, the hume Highway shoudl go via Tumut accordign to wik.

Isnt it amazing what some do to gain a tourist arrtaction.

The Hume Highway (or Great South Road) used to go to Harden, then to Brawlin, then across to Coolac. (Avoiding stuff again.)

Also, where is Major Mitchells Rd? Its probably the most significant trackway and it is being lost because of the concentration on Hume and Hovells route. Given Mitchell became Surveyor General also, its significant. That road and most of the other roads, didnt come through Gundagai till much later, skirting to the west of the town (and also avoiding the tolls). It was only when the Prince Alfred Bridge was built in the 1860s that the highway then came through Gundagai.

The Antarctic was west, 60+ mya. The South Pole was where Broken Hill is these days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.54.174.59 (talk • contribs) 08:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coolac massacre - Reliable sources

I don't believe the reference cited for the Coolac massacre, http://help.com/post/3296/coolac-massacre/ , meets the criteria under Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Using_online_and_self-published_sources - specifically Posts to bulletin boards, Usenet, and wikis, or messages left on blogs, should not be used as sources. --Golden Wattle ^talk 23:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Help.com is more reliable than wik as it has the Coolac massacre posted. Lololololololol lolololol ha! Wik is totally not needed as there are heaps more out there will put stuff up. The Coolac Massacre post got collected from the other end, months ago though so it can also melt from help.com if it wants.

Help.com is not acceptable, sorry. That post represents the writer's opinion only (you, I suspect). It's not in the slightest bit acceptable as a source. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 08:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Cute how help.com uses the wikipedia for its "primer"[5] and uses my photgraph (without attribution for the photo or the wikipedia) - must be very reliable!--Golden Wattle ^talk 10:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The two ugly sisters have landed. Get lost you two. Go harass someone else. Help.com has more going for it then what you have made here, so that doesnt give here much kudos, does it. Go play at Voodoo. They like dimwits there. Find 'Black' and tell him I sent you.

I've blocked you for 12 hours for continuing your personal attacks. Please don't come back until the 12 hours is up. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 10:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mittagong bypass

I have deleted the following due to lack of cited sources: The road was built on a consolidated scree slope with considerable subterranean water flows^{[citation needed]} and may have also been affected by poorly charted 19th century coal mining.^{[citation needed]} As a result two new bridges had to be retrofitted to the road.^{[citation needed]}

I put this info here in the first place and I have read the documents concerned, but you would need an FOI request to get them out of the RTA.--Grahamec 00:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair dinkum. 'We' were there for that job living at Welby. Doing a bridge ...

[edit] Old Names For Localities

Why doesnt someone include the old names for places. Coolac now is not Coolac 1830. Coolac 1830 is where Pettits is these days. It was gazetted as Coolac in the 1860s though, (maps available of f online Surveyor Generals Maps and Plans). It got moved too. In 1830 it wasnt Pettits or Coolac though. In the UK the authorites and historians know all the old names back for 1000s years. They do regularly change. Its odd. The UK have new 4000 year old Stonehenge and know heaps of their national story. We have 60,000 year arch including far better than the Henge, and dont even know what happened in 1950. A culture of coverup. Where has Sylvia's Gap gone off the Hume Highway? It was famous that place. No one would know of it now. Jugiong Hill substituted for a while. Dont mind me, we had the old Mayne Nicks depot so used to do the trucks and other stuff for a while. The mystery of Sylvia's Gap eh. You need to add the good plus dreadful bits of the story to the macadam (sorry, concrete).

[edit] Bypass developments October 2006

• Sydney Morning Herald of 30/10 - platypus colony at Albury + ABC of 3 Oct ref to archeological survey delays at Coolac (but work starts next year)--Golden Wattle ^talk 18:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• I have removed that Construction has started since it hasn't due to the platypus colony, the on going archaeological survey and the tender hasn't been rewarded to a Construction Company yet. It's looking like that construction will start in December or early next year. -- Bidgee 11:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we nominate this article?

Just browsing through this article, I think it is well structured enough and has a good amount of reliable refernces to nominate it for a Good Article. What do others think? I will nominate it within 7 days if no comments are posted. --Lakeyboy 08:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

There are too many errors in it Lakeyboy

[edit] most important and notable interstate highway?

I note that user:Lakeyboy has recently re-written the intro to claim that the Hume is "Australia's most important and notable interstate highway". I really don't think that this statement is appropriate but I haven't reverted it as yet. The Pacific Highway would easily be more infamous and hence notable. I also suspect that there would be people in many parts of the country who would disagree with the "most important" part. The F3 has previously been described as the busiest rural freeway in Australia. I would suggest that this statement either needs to be reverted or a reference found to support it and it be re-written to use that reference, such as by stating that "xyz has described it as Australia's most important and notable interstate highway". --Athol Mullen 13:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, maybe that's abit biased. I am from Melbourne so that is likely to occur in some of my edits. I will add to the sentence "one of" for now. --Lakeyboy 07:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Enforcement of speed limits

I don't believe that the statement to the effect that "the speed limits ... are vigorously policed and unbendingly enforced" is verifiable, factual or able to be referenced, at least in NSW. I have primary source information and personal experience that indicates that 124km/h (calibrated) will not result in a NSW police officer stopping a light vehicle or issuing an infringement in 110km/h zones when detected on lidar or radar (the main forms of enforcement between Sydney and Canberra). Because that information is not secondary source, it cannot be used as a reference but it does indicate that finding a verifiable reference to support the statement presently in the article is unlikely to be possible. --Athol Mullen 12:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted it - is is just someone's opinion, and how is "vigorously policed and unbendingly enforced" different to any other road in Australia? Wongm (talk) 07:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Royal Parade

I'm wondering if there is any proof the the 'old' Hume Highway began at the Royal Pde roundabout with Elizabeth St? Even before the Cragieburn Bypass, there were no signs showing the "Hume Highway" name along Royal Pde. --Sk-4 (talk) 05:47, 22 December 2007 (UTC)