Talk:Honey
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[edit] Trees
"tree and grass pollens, which honeybees do not collect." Huh? Maybe its only in Australia that there are flowering trees, but I doubt it. Could someone look into this to maybe fix it or tell me I am wrong? WookMuff 10:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Of course honeybees, having nests of 8,000 to 10,000 bees need large sources of nectar, and wouldn't make it without them, even if flowering plants were still available. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.88.226.198 (talk) 14:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Land flowing with milk and honey
I'm not sure that this part of the article is written correctly:
- The Old Testament contains many references to honey as a symbol for all that is pleasant and desirable. For example, the book of Exodus famously describes the Promised Land as a 'land flowing with milk and honey' (33:3).
In that time period and culture, milk and honey were considered to be peasant foods. Something that any old goat herder would have access to. Thus, the statement that the promised land was a land flowing with milk and honey would be akin, in today's language, to saying it was flowing with "bread and water". The intention was to get the Israelites minds off of the excesses of their old Egyptian masters and to a simpler lifestyle. They were promised a land where food would be plentiful, but simple. It is modern-day readers of the bible that have attached the "all that is pleasant and desirable" connotation to "milk and honey". Kurt 10:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
- The Honey described there is very clearly date honey not bee/flower honey! In fairness the line you quote from the article does call honey a "symbol", but even if it is a symbol, it's also literally true - date palms are quite plentiful in Israel (although bee honey isn't), as are flocks of milk animals. There is no conflict in reading the line simultaniously as a symbol, and as a litteral meaning. But it's wrong to put it here since it's not even talking about bee honey. Ariel. 14:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
"honey appears 61x in KJV - citation needed" - this page says it's there 56 times. I suggest the hebrew occurence count is more relevant. BTW can the actual counting (or using a search webpage/software) of the occurences be considered original research? charon 10:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The whole paragraph is problematic.
- "The Old Testament contains many references to honey."
- If so, this should be verifiable to a reliable, secondary source.
- "While the book of Exodus famously describes the Promised Land as a 'land flowing with milk and honey' (33:3) the original Hebrew (devash) actually refers to the sweet syrup produced from the juice of the date."
- Uncited arguments are often original research or unverifiable. Given the context, the importance of a reference to "honey" in translations of Ex33:3 is the deciding factor: is the use "culturally significant" re honey? If not, it should go (lest every article on every common-ish word start sprouting similar effemera. If so, it should be sourced.
- "In The Book of Judges, Samson found a swarm of bees and honey in the carcass of a lion (14:8)." Again, so what? Is this particular example culturally significant? In my upbringing, "land flowing with..." was common enough. The Samson story was buried pretty far back in my mind.
- "In Matthew 3:4, John the Baptist is said to have lived for a long period of time in the wilderness on a diet consisting of locusts and wild honey."
- Again, we're quoting a primary source (a translation of Matthew) with no thought to the significance. We could just as easily quote the Beatles song "Honeypie", 1970s ads for "Honeycomb cereal" and Dagwood/Fred/whomever using it to refer to Blondie/Wilma/whomever's partner.
- "The word "honey" appears 61 times in the King James Version of the Bible."
- This could be yanked for several reasons: it's uncited, it might be WP:OR, it's importance to the topic is not obvious, etc. Yes, the Bible is a significant consideration in many people's lives. It does not follow, however, that every reference to a particular word or topic in the Bible is significant to that word or topic.
- Mdbrownmsw 12:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that "devash" can refer to both date honey and bee-made honey, lumping together two kinds of liquid or pliable sweeteners that we anglophones are used to thinking of as belonging to separate categories. Thus, I suppose the category of devash is better rendered as "honey/syrup" (and some have, indeed, suggested that the sweet liquids of the fig, grape, etc., were also included in the category). If this ancient concept were extended to modern America, I would think maple syrup and corn syrup would also fall under the same category - that of thick liquid or pliable sweeteners. 204.52.215.13 00:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Honey Bears
The current revision requests a citation for honey bear jars. I was under the impression that only one company sold honey in bear jars, so I googled it to find the name of the company. It turns out that nearly every place that sells honey offers it in bears. Would citing one of these stores be enough, or do we need a link explaining the origin of the honey bears? Shui9 05:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article pollution
This page has 53 "citation needed" tags! What's the deal? Thus, the article is ugly and hard to read. --Ephilei 19:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- I agree...the point of the citation-needed header is to avoid a "cite needed" after every sentence! --JD79 15:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Citations
I agree...the article is well written but many of the claims in this article have no documentation for a source. Therefore, I'm doing my further research elsewhere. This article should be cleaned up soon by an expert, since honey is very popular and heavily used in many products. If the claims are factual and merely require a source, then the article is well written and substantiated. Rx787 20:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Addition of "Food" category
I think this category should be removed. Food is not a category for articles, but rather as a parent category for other categories. This is a more efficient way of storing information, as there are few things that are food that do not fit in one of its subcats. --Eyrian 02:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- My bad. Won't revert again. Sorry about the misunderstanding WookMuff 10:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Composition of Honey
The sentence: The specific composition of any batch of honey will depend largely on the mix of flowers consumed by the bees that produced the honey. needs to be changed... bees don't consume flowers.
Perhaps "...depend largely on the variety of flowers available to the bees..." or "...depend largely on the sources of pollen available to the bees..."?
Obviously, the health of the plants that produce the pollen will also have an effect on the composition of the honey.. which means that the location of the plants, as well as soil quality and composition are also factors.
--Versaq 23:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- Uh huh - except that honey is produced from nectar, not pollen. Raw honey will have a trace of pollen, but commercial packers filter out all pollen.Pollinator 23:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- Of course, sorry...dunno what i was thinking there--Versaq 00:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Are there honeys that are high in glucose, but low in fructose? --Anonquick 05:26, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I heard that honey contains some small (very very small, of course) parts of Gold and Silver. Is it true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.168.33.131 (talk) 11:30, 8 August 2007
- With a sufficiently exacting analysis process, you could probably find minute traces of gold and silver in most organic substances. — Bigwyrm watch mewake me 11:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Teeth
What about honey's affect on the teeth? I've read sources that say it rots the teeth faster than table sugar, (though some antibiotic honeys might help prevent decay.) Generalhoneypot 11:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Price
Isn't the cost of honey rising? TheListUpdater 16:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fact tag
I added a fact tag to this statement:
"This article refers exclusively to the honey produced by honey bees (the genus Apis); honey produced by other bees or other insects has very different properties."
I'm no entomologist, but is there actually "honey" produced by non-bees or non-Apis bees? If so, what are these different properties? It would be useful to find a source for that statement, preferably to a source that explains the distinctions.--Isotope23 19:20, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- Just as a quick note, Bombus certainly creates honey, or at least a substance comparable. Unfortunately I can't find a source for, or be ceratin in myself, of that statement at the start (I've not had any time to look). Hopefully someone more clueful can weigh in :) Martinp23 19:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I have found Bombus honey to be even better that Apis. oh, so fragrant! Very hard to get, they really mind being disturbed. Sting feel like what being hit by a Taser probably feels like. Learned during the cleaning of a shed. yamaplos 15:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaplos (talk • contribs)
[edit] Cholesterol References
Some references were recently added to the article to support the cholesterol-regulating effects of honey. I put these references into form (and moved them up to the earlier mention of cholesterol). Do these references support the assertion that honey affects cholesterol levels? From what I could tell, the articles make two claims:
- Honey affects antioxidant levels
- Almonds affect cholesterol levels
I don't see any direct support for the assertion that honey affects cholesterol levels, and there is no solid support for the assertion that antioxidants affect cholesterol levels. Also: the only point at which the third article mentions cholesterol is in the title. -- Bigwyrm 06:24, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you for your comments,i made some fixes according to your recommendations :) about your cholesterol comments, allow to comment: 1)on link:http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/news/20020819/honey-almonds-lower-cholesterol there is paragraph that says:That might seem like a lot of honey, but study author Nicki Engeseth, PhD, from the American chemical society, says adding small amounts of honey could enhance the effects of an already heart-healthy diet and help keep cholesterol levels in check. 2) The bbc news link says that: The scientists from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign say honey appears to have a "mild protective effect". 3)the third link, http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020721175945data_trunc_sys.shtml,mentions pretty much the same things but in slightly different way. hope that this proves my point. again, thanks you for your comments and corrections, hope that it would be ok with you to include these links after this clarification. I really believe that they’re very informational and useful :) Grandia01 06:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, that has a bit to do with something I mentioned above: Dr. Engeseth asserts that honey increases antioxidant levels. The article claims that this could affect cholesterol levels. That was a popular idea at the time, but it was never well-supported. Antioxidants do have many beneficial effects, but improving cholesterol levels is not one of them. Those are good references, but I think they would be better used to support the antioxidant claims. See what I'm getting at? -- Bigwyrm 07:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- i see your point,but it looks like this is more of a matter of interpretation.and you obviously know that everyone will not see things from you perspectives.would it be ok with you if include my info and your point of view supported by alternative references just to be fair??Grandia01 14:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, that has a bit to do with something I mentioned above: Dr. Engeseth asserts that honey increases antioxidant levels. The article claims that this could affect cholesterol levels. That was a popular idea at the time, but it was never well-supported. Antioxidants do have many beneficial effects, but improving cholesterol levels is not one of them. Those are good references, but I think they would be better used to support the antioxidant claims. See what I'm getting at? -- Bigwyrm 07:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Honey in Culture and Folklore
I believe there should be some mention of the history of honey-mead as a sacred beverage in North-West Europe, and of how the Eddas speak of honeydew from the World Tree being collected by bees. Mead made from the honey thus produced was "the nectar of the Gods" and "the mead of inspiration", as the World Tree drew its nourishment directly from the Well of Wyrd.
I have a piece written but do not know enough about HTML and formatting stuff to post it myself. Any help would be appreciated. Aelswyth2 01:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)aelswyth2
- Post it here, and I'll be happy to look over it. --Eyrian 19:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Pitcairn Island Honey" link
The Pitcairn Island Honey article is a bald-faced advertisement for Pitcairn Island Pure Honey. The article is (except for the first sentence) a word-for-word copy of the text on the website where the honey is sold. Perhaps the link to that article should be removed from this one? --68.39.187.136 15:55, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Certified Organic Honey
From that section, I have just removed: "Also, The Lancet, a prestigious international medical journal, reported in 1993 that conventionally produced honey may contain residues of these chemicals and should be used with caution, only to emphasize the rarity of finding true organic honey nowadays[1]."
1) The source cited is NOT Lancet, but a pro-organics site that seriously mischaracterizes what was published.
1a) Lancet ran a LETTER, it did not "report" anything. (see Postmes T, et al. "Honey for wounds, ulcers and skin graft preservation". Lancet 1993:341(8847):756-57.) 1b) The letter dealt with the use of honey in treating "wounds, ulcers, and skin graft preservation", saying NOTHING whatsoever about the more common use of honey -- eating it. 1c) The letter says NOTHING about the "rarity of finding true organic honey nowadays" or anything related to that claim. 1d) The letter does not mention organic honey at all. 1e) While it mentions concerns about contaminants from honey, it is not the residues the organics site lists, but Clostridium spores which, if anything, would be MORE concentrated in organic honey (as organic honey more often comes from fewer amalgamated sources).
2) Much of the text removed was taken verbatum (see WP:CR). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdbrownmsw (talk • contribs) 15:55, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Infant botulism
The article states:
However, it is important to note that honey frequently contains dormant endospores of the bacteria Clostridium botulinum, which can be dangerous to infants as the endospores can transform into toxin-producing bacteria in the infant's immature intestinal tract, leading to illness and even death[4].
The referenced webpage is a good one, but it doesn't say that about infant botulism. What it says about infant botulism is:
"The source of ingestion is unknown in approximately 85% of cases; in up to 15% of cases, the ingestion of honey is suspected." about 1/4 down that page
The reference states a suspicion that 15% of the 1444 cases of infant botulism between 1971 and 1996 were the result of infants ingesting botulism spores contained in honey. Whereas the reference states a scientific suspicion, the article states a certainty. Jonhathon 16:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Other honeys?
The intro to the article says "This article refers exclusively to the honey produced by honey bees (the genus Apis); honey produced by other bees or other insects has very different properties.[1]" What are these other "honeys" called and how are they different from honey bee honey? I read through the reference given, but found no ansewer there. Just curious. Silverchemist 23:04, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Time of Harvest
When do you "harvest" (or whatever it might be called) the honey? I guess this depends on what tree or flower is used, but I'd apprechiate a few examples.
213.89.189.120 22:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Crystallization
can any one can clear why honey get crystallized even after its processing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.180.117 (talk) 17:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
-
- I expect that this is simply because it is a supersaturated sugar product. Heating the honey raises the solubility of the sugar in the solution and allows it to dissolve again. 66.94.95.194 (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Biblical Citation
I went to http://ebible.org/bible/kjv/ and downloaded a text file of the KJ Version. Using openoffice, I did a "find and replace" operation. Replacing "honey" with the randomly selected term "sewage" I was informed by the software that my search key was replaced 73 times. Thus I corrected the number and removed the ugly looking and space consuming demand for a citation. Feel free to worship my effervescent awesomeness. CameronB 16:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Not wishing to burst any awesome effervescent bubbles but unfortunately that's original research. We need a reliable source who's done the counting already. Kudos for using Openoffice though :-) Regards Bksimonb 20:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
-
- The problem with counting like this is that not all the words 'honey' actually refer to honey itself. They could refer to the color for example, or to the consistency (flows like honey), or to date honey/syrup. You'd have to check each one and read it's context. But can I ask why it's so important to know exactly the number? Just say 'numerous times', and be done with it. Ariel. (talk) 09:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Honey Synthesis
I'd like to see this article contain information about how honey is synthesized from pollen by bees. I know nothing about this, but when I get some free time I'll do some research. -Verdatum (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] High fructose corn syrup
I put in a note on this, with a reference to Dr. Mirkin, since it seems to be a growing and perhaps dangerous trend.Dale662 (talk) 19:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've removed it as being off topic. Seems a bit spammy as well. --Ronz (talk) 18:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] WEASAL WORDS!!
" Honey has a distinctive flavor which leads some people to prefer it over sugar and other sweeteners. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by Platinum inc (talk • contribs) 21:43, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
