Talk:Historically black colleges and universities
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[edit] Capitalization
Is there a Wikipedia policy about the use of capitals on 'black'? I can think of arguments for why "black" could be preferred and "Black" offensive, and for the opposite view.
I've removed a few instances of "Black" on the page because they looked odd when contrasted with "white", and I decided it would look worse to capitalize everything. However, I left "Black" in the intro because it should be identical to the page title, which has "Black" capitalized. --Saforrest 19:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Date? -- in the first paragraph, is the correct date 1964 or 1864? There seems to be some confusion.
--Gwynhefar 20:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, defines an HBCU as: "...any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education] to be a reliable authority as to the quality of training offered or is, according to such an agency or association, making reasonable progress toward accreditation."
[edit] College Hill
Do any of Y'all watch College Hill? Please assist in adding content to this new stub article. MPS 17:03, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Medgar Evers College
Should Medgar Evers College be listed as a HBCU? According to the official definition, a HBCU has to have been established prior to 1964. While Medgar Evers fits all of the other qualifications, it was not established until 1970. --Sometimesdee 17:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
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- No, because HBCU is something of a "term of art". There are several predominantly black institutions of higher learning established after 1964 (another besides Medgar Evers is Shelby State in Tennessee), but 1964 was established as the "cut-off" for an institution to be considered to be historically black, apparently because there was so much institutional racism prior to that time, and somewhat less of that particular form of racism after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Rlquall 18:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- Should we start an article for Predominately black colleges and universities that do not fit the criteria of the historically black college? Schools like Medger Evers College, Chicago State University, or Bay Ridge Christian College could be entries. Absolon S. Kent 20:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
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- I say no; there are so few that would fall under that category. A mention in the school's article and here is sufficient. 4.235.93.225 05:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] University of the Virgin Islands
UVI was not established before 1964 but in 1964 so it seems to violate one of the criteria, but is nonetheless recognized as a HBCU. Rlquall 17:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- UVI's page states that it was established in 1962 and given HBC status in 1986. Elefuntboy 22:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article heading/intro
I think that the lead paragraph is somewhat misleading. It states that Blacks were denied opportunites at almost all predominantly-white U.S. institutions of higher learning, outside of the few listed, prior to 1964. While this was true at one time, particularly prior to and in the early 20th century, it was not true outside of the South in most instances well prior to 1964. 1964 marked a turning point in racial integration in the South in higher education in many instances, but it had already been achieved (to an extent) in most of the rest of the country somewhat prior to this. Comments? Rlquall 17:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'd have to agree with you. While informal segregation certainly existed throughout the country, HCBUs developed almost entirely in the Deep South, where segregation was a matter of law. While smaller (but still large) numbers of African-Americans lived in the relatively more industrialized North and Midwest, virtually no HCBUs developed. I'd argue that's because there wasn't a need, at least not by the time we arrived at the Civil Rights Era. Goeverywhere 01:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fisk
Why is Fisk listed under the "Women's Colleges" heading? Hasn't it been co-ed all along? Rlquall 18:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Which is the oldest HBCU?
That might be interesting to note: which school (or schools) was the oldest and how it came to be. --Bobak 18:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
The oldest recognized HBCU institution is Cheyney University, founded in 1837. Among its notable graduates and faculty are Ebenezer Don Carlos Bassett, the second president of Cheyney and the first African-American diplomat, and Richard T. Greener, the first African-American Harvard graduate. Cheyney University was founded by Quaker philanthropist Richard Humphreys, a native of the British Virgin Islands who bequeathed $10,000 to create an institition of higher learning for Blacks.
Hope this helps! NeoSoulBrotha (HBCUConnect.com)
[edit] Alumni Pride
I would like to propose eliminating the Notable Schools portion of this article. It is rapidly becoming a section lacking cited sources with several contradicting statements listed for multiple institutions (i.e. oldest school, largest enrollment, most graduates in a field, etc.). It seems that any writers are trying to tout the merits of their institution instead of maintaining a neutral academic point of view. The descriptions listed would be more appropriate on each institution's page.
Absolon S. Kent 22:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
- Trivia section was removed on March 19, 2007. These items should be listed on each individual school's page.
[edit] Inaccurate statement
- Writer notes that Southern University is the largest HBCU, but according to the National Center for Education Statistics [1] FAMU has the largest enrollment of total students (13,013) and Black students (12,104). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Absolon (talk • contribs) 22:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC).
- I know this is old but, Southern is the largest in physical size. It has three campuses one in Baton Rouge, one in New Orleans, and there's another somewhere else. FAMU is the largest in enrollment. The article should reflect both statistics. CJ 15:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Eliminate List of Institutions
I would like to propose eliminating the List of HBCUs since this list already exists in another area (please see List of historically black colleges of the United States. This is a list of historically black colleges in the United States from the Presidential Commission on Historically Black Colleges.Absolon S. Kent 20:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Disproportionate pop culture section
It's a bit disheartening that this article only has one or two lines detailing the contributions of HBCUs to African-American culture and society, and then goes on and on ad nauseum talking about their role in the crosby show. Borisblue 03:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- The Pop Culture section is once again becoming an Alumni Pride area. Recommend eliminating all mentions of specific schools.
Absolon S. Kent 13:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Criticism
No criticism section for an article about colleges that are basically institutionalized racism? Cool. That's the Wiki way! :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.43 (talk) 21:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree with your statement, but you are well within your rights to disagree with the content of the article. If you have creditable evidence that such institutions are "basically institutionalized racism" please feel free to add it to the article. Wikipedia is about facts, not personal subject opinions. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Question: if you made a Historically white college, would be racism? And if so, would that be a double standard if historically black are not racist? Rick lay95 (talk) 22:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)rick_lay95
- Answer: The majority of major American universities are historically white (and predominately white). If you look at the article you will note that the HBCU institutions were established before 1964. During that time blacks were not allowed to to attend many universities with whites (especially in the Southern United States. Thus the term historically black was established. Hope this clears things up for you. God bless. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 02:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that dosn't answer anything. I have never seen where the Univeristy of Louisville or Hawaii or any college has stated that they were historically white. If I am not mistaken a university is just a place of higher education. Period. So I don't understand your answer. As as a matter of fact, historically white dose not show up in Wikipedia at all. Rick lay95 (talk) 16:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)rick_lay95
- Not sure what's so hard to understand. The Department of Education created a special designation for colleges and universities that were established to educate African-Americans before they were legally allowed to attend colleges with whites. It took an Executive Order (Executive Order 12232) in 1980 to established this federal program "... to overcome the effects of discriminatory treatment and to strengthen and expand the capacity of historically black colleges and universities to provide quality education." HBCUs enroll 14% of all African American students in higher education and graduate 24% of all African American students enrolled in four-year colleges (although they constitute only three percent of America's 4,084 institutions of higher education). They account for one in six masters degrees awarded to African American men and women (source: U.S. Department of Education) The Univeristy of Louisville or University of Hawaii don't need to state that they were historically white because African American's couldn't legally attend them until the Brown v. Board of Education ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court (the court decision which outlawed racial segregation of public education facilities) in 1954. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 17:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
There is often a lot of confusion as to what "historically Black" designates, and whether this is an incentive for these institutions to restrict their recruitment to Black students today. The consensus is that the term "HBCU" refers to the institutions (usually in the South) where de jure segregation required colleges to restrict their admissions by race. The emphasis here is not on creating or maintaining a predominantly Black student body today, but rather acknowledging the historical background of these colleges. In fact, many HBCUs, like most American colleges, are taking steps to increase diversity in their student bodies; some HBCUs such as Bluefield State University and Lincoln University are not predominantly Black.
The objective of HBCUs is not to create a discriminatory institution to exclude students of other races; but simply to acknowledge their history, as well as characteristics typical of these institutions (relatively small student body, governance by a religious institution or ideology, emphasis on community building, affordable tuition, conservative social values). Students of all backgrounds and ethnicities are welcome at HBCUs today. NeoSoulBrotha at HBCUConnect.com
- Though it'd be best not to couch it in the adversarial terms of some of the discussion above, this sort of thing might be worth discussing in the article. As NeoSoulBrotha mentions, most HBCUs do aim at increasing the diversity of their student bodies. In addition there are legal requirements for them to do so in some states (that part has been more controversial). So the evolving, sometimes controversial, and often confusing issue of what HBCU status means for colleges today could be discussed. --Delirium (talk) 06:54, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Confusion on Brown v. Board
In the first part a HBCU is defined as an institution founded before 1964. However, later it states institutions founded after Brown v. Board are not eligible. Brown v. Board was decided in 1954, so there is a 10 year gap where it seems to be contradictory. For example, University of the Virgin Islands was founded in 1962, after Brown v. Board, but before the 1964 date and is recognized as a HBCU. Can someone clear up the discrepancy (1954 against 1964) for both me and on the page. Thanks. RonSigPi (talk) 01:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- The 1964 date is the official measure, not Brown vs. Board of Education. The court ruling was a compromise statement added to address a past discussion on the issue of predominately black instuituions that were not included on the listing. I added the following (which is actually more accurate):
-
- The Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, defines an HBCU as: "...any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education] to be a reliable authority as to the quality of training offered or is, according to such an agency or association, making reasonable progress toward accreditation." [1]
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- Other educational institutions currently have large numbers of African Americans in their student body, but as they were founded (or opened their doors to African Americans) after the implementation of the Brown v. Board of Education ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court (the court decision which outlawed racial segregation of public education facilities) and The Higher Education Act of 1965. Thus by definition they are not historically black colleges, but have been termed "predominantly black."
- Hopefully this provides a little more clarity. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 01:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
