Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 February 7

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1 February 7

[edit] February 7

[edit] Something on my Userpage...

In my userbox section of my userpage section, there's something that says:

"If you want to use this on your userpage, simply type in:

User:ClonedPickle"

Is there anyway to get rid of it? I can't seem to find the wording when I try to edit it. KEViN (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see it. Maybe a transcluded page has been edited since you saw it. Please sign posts with ~~~~. This will automatically produce the right links and time. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:23, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

KEViN (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citations = necessary?

Hi, I wrote an article about a game that doesn't really have any citations. It's a rock-paper-scissors variation, but there are no citations to cite. It's become very popular though so I felt an article would be appropriate. Are citations necessary? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bleedsideshow (talk • contribs) 00:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello there! Unfortunately, Skiing (game) will be deleted if verifiable sources are not provided, because yes, citations are necessary. Hope that helps, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Henri VIII

Could you please check your " British history " and modifie the Henri VIII of England biography. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.54.124 (talk) 00:12, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If you mean this edit, it was reverted as vandalism in a matter of seconds. I guess you just got unlucky seeing the vandalised version. Astronaut (talk) 00:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Block Quote maximum Size, For example Appendix 1D...

What is the Block Quote maximum Size? - For example Appendix 1A in the article Jehovah has been removed because of it's size
and I don't know if that is vandalism until I verify the size maximum.
GabrielVelasquez (talk) 00:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

A block quote can theoretically be as big as an entire article, though it should not be too big, and rather contain just relevant information. Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to Keep Track of Answers

Often when I ask a question, I read the answers and think "wow, that's really good stuff; I gotta keep that!"

I know that answers are taken off this page into an archive, and that the archives can be searched. The problem is that approach does not keep the answers readily available.

What I have done recently is to copy answers to my talk page for future reference.

My question is (finally he gets to a question!) is there a way to write a link that will take me an answer section even after it is archived, or does a link have to be manually edited and changed when the section is archived? Thank you. Wanderer57 (talk) 00:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

PS If you did not provide good answers, I wouldn't be asking this question. Wanderer57 (talk) 00:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yup, there's a link! :) Every revision in a page history has its own separate link; for example, the one where you added this question can be found here. To find a revision, just go to the page's history and look for the revision you need. Also, thanks for the compliment; it means a lot to us. Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with that being that if you link to the revision where you wrote the question, that's the version of the page you'll see at that link forevermore. If you link to the revision just before it's archived, though, you'll be in better shape. (And incidentally, MoP's link was not to an individual revision, but to a diff(erence) between two revisions. Both types of link are useful in certain circumstances.) Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 03:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

In addition to using a permanent link, you can also link to the archived version of a question in at least two ways:

It's not too hard to figure out what the future archive link for a current Help desk question is going to be, since all the Help desk archive pages follow a consistent naming scheme. For example, the future archive link for this question will be:
- Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2008 February 7#How to Keep Track of Answers (that's a red link now, of course, but check it again in a week or so)
Use the handy {{Google help desk}} template (can I give myself a barnstar for writing it?) to search for a distinct phrase which appears in the question text. In a week or two, Google will get around to indexing the Help desk and its archives, and the search will begin working. For example, I bet this search should eventually find this question as the first result or certainly near the first:
- Search Help desk for: "I know that answers are taken off this page into an archive"

Both of the above methods will link you to the current revision for an archived question. The archived copy is an ordinary page, and thus it is editable. Although it is not common, sometimes a person may add further material to an archived question, for example if someone notices that a change in policy or software has made the old answer dangerously obsolete. --Teratornis (talk) 18:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrongful Warning

I recently reverted some changes (both made from the same user) that I thought was vandalism to articles found on Recent Changes (Namely, Hunting). However, these reverts were reverted by a user. Now the vandalism is back. How do I protest my warning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.254.227 (talk) 00:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The person reverting your edits most likely got confused; it happens sometimes. I've reverted the article back to your version, and have removed the warning from your talk page. Thanks for helping out! --barneca (talk) 00:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Mea culpa. See User talk:68.84.254.227 Toddst1 (talk) 00:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, what do you think about creating an account? ;) Thanks for contributing! Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

In addition to the previous comments, I’ll point out that the majority of vandalism is done by anonymous users, hence the tendency of some users to revert anonymous edits without actually checking them out. I will second MoP’s suggestion that you register an account if you plan on doing much editing here. Thanks! —Travis ^talk 00:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Don’t forget to sign your posts by adding four tildes (~~~~) after your comment. —Travis ^talk 00:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV comment in grading box

There is a comment in the grading box ISLAM IS THE RIGHT RELIGION YOU SHALL FAE THE FIRE IF YOU DO NOT COME TO ISLAM on the Muslim talkpage, I cannot seem to remove it. I just get an error message. --Fredrick day (talk) 00:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the problematic message. {{WikiProject Islam}} had a section that accessed Talk:Muslim/Comments for the grading comments section; some vandals got into the comments article and vandalized it. All should be well now. Thanks for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted the comments page (something MOP will be able to do soon!), since all the edits to date were vandalism or reverting vandalism. Bencherlite ^Talk 02:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Start

What is the earliest possible date in a Wikipedia contribution record? Wanderer57 (talk) 01:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The answer, along with some other interesting info, can be found in Wikipedia:UuU. --barneca (talk) 01:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] muhammed and jesus

Hello,

Why is the muhammed page locked from edits but the jesus page isnt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.106.20.149 (talk) 02:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! Pages are protected to prevent edit warring or other unconstructive editing. Currently, the article on Muhammad is protected because of recent edit warring. The protection of a page has very little to do with the content of the page and much more to do with the recent editing of the page. If you want to suggest changes for an article, you can always to it on the Talk page for that article. Hope this helps! --omtay 38 02:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Testing templates

Can I write a template in my user sandbox and test it in my user space? Two-curly-brace invokes a template from the Template: space, is there a way to use two-curly-brace + User:Franamax/test_template? Or do I have to put my experiments in Template: ?

Thanks for the help! Franamax (talk) 02:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! The curly brackets invoke a little bit of wikipedia software magic called Transclusion. They work on any wikipedia page. For any page that is not a template, the space prefix (User, Wikipedia, Talk) must be used within the brackets. To transclude User:Franamax/test_template you would simply type {{User:Franamax/test_template}} Hope this helps! --omtay 38 02:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes it does help, and you know, I could have just tried that myself before coming here! I'm getting lazy in my old age :) Franamax (talk) 03:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The tricky one is transcluding from mainspace - logic would say that to transclude, say, Jimmy Wales, you'd type {{Jimmy Wales}}. But as you know, that would look instead for Template:Jimmy Wales. Instead, you add a colon (like you do when trying to link categories instead of add a page to them), like so: {{:Jimmy Wales}}. Of course, it's rare that you'll want to transclude an article (the only example I can think of is the cascade-protected transclusions of Main Page), but on other MediaWiki wikis it may come in handy. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 03:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! Now I've also learned how to put a link to a category into a page, before now I always just ended up adding the page into the category. Thanks for the info on transcluding (main) also. I'm glad I came here :) Franamax (talk) 04:00, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help- Talk Page

Something I noticed after my rename, was that my talk page is still located at it's old location User_talk:VivioFateFan, I can't "move" it because another user already created User_talk:Vivio Testarossa. Could anyone help. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 04:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey there! WP:RM should be able to help out. Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 05:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Programming error on create account page?

I attempted to create a WP account and entered a username and password. There was no "rasterised" phrase to copy but on pressing "enter" the message came up that I hadn't entered all the details.

I tried again and was still not accepted.

On the third attempt I clicked on the "send new password by email" box - and this was accepted - although I had not given you an email address! I think that the site must already *have* someone registered with the username I put in - and *he* has now been sent a change of password!

I suggest that you investigate this - there's no initial rejection because a username already exists so it is possible that many people find emails in their inboxes changing their details because someone else has tried to use the existing name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.46.6 (talk) 05:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

That's strange... after you clicked on the send new password box, did you get an email, by any chance? Just wondering. Also, may I ask what internet browser you were using? Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 05:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Which username did you try to create? We can see whether it's taken. I just tried to create my own again and got an error message saying "Login error:Username entered already in use. Please choose a different name." PrimeHunter (talk) 13:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Generators

Hi I am intrested to Export Used Generators to the Gulf Countries, Pakistan, Afganistan and Iran. I am looking for a company who can supply me different kinds of generators ranging from 25 KV and above. All prices must be c&f based for the above countries i mentioned. I am also willing to take a dealer ship for the above countries. Please send me catagologs and prices along with the c&f price list and specifications on each generators and drawings. If he dealer ship is avalible then I would like to set up a sales and service and parts supplies in the above each country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.161.171 (talk) 06:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello. You probably came upon our article on Generators and came to the conclusion that we may help you find these; however, please note that we can not help in business dealings. Sorry, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 06:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A how to cite issue

Background:For The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn I was trying to make someone's true but weasel worded statement more specific by sticking Hemingway's name in it. Later I cited The Green Hills of Africa which currently has a direct quote on the issue. I thought if it was a direct quote it was ok. That is against policy, but I didn't know. I can't find it so far in the citations instructions here. Can that be made more prominent in the instructions? Thanks, Rich Peterson63.164.145.198 (talk) 07:12, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

There are several places that you might find of use:

Hope this helps! --omtay 38 07:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but I still don't see any place where it explicitly says that Wikipedia can NEVER be used as a source. Maybe I'm blind or too impatient to see it. I'm beginning to wonder if no Wikipedia cites IS a policy after all, even if it should be. (Of course, it probably would be best to use outside sources in most cases, but my question now, is that the policy or not? (Britannica will sometimes essentially selfsource with a "q.v")Thanks, Rich (talk) 19:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm ... I was going to point you to Wikipedia:Reliable sources and/or Wikipedia:Verifiability, which I'm sure made some reference to it, but unfortunately I can't find the relevant section. Still, if you look in the second one on self-published online sources, you can kind of consider Wikipedia falling into that. There are basically two and a half problems with citing Wikipedia on Wikipedia. The first problem is that you have no way of knowing how reliable that information is or where it came from unless it is itself referenced to an external source, in which case you're better off using the external source. The second problem is that Wikipedia content is ever-evolving. If you quote from The Green Hills of Africa today, who knows whether that quote is going to be like that tomorrow, or if the article is going to be moved to Green Green Grass of Home, or deleted outright? The half problem is that technically, encyclopedias generally shouldn't cite encyclopedias, something which refers back to what I said regarding the first problem.

And, having thought about it, it's also a little bit of a Wikipedia:Avoid self references problem, too. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 21:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

As stated, I know there are good arguments can be made against citing Wikipedia in a Wikipedia article, but I want to know if and where in Wikipedia it explicitly says don't do it. I think if that is the policy, then it should be prominently, not just explicitly, stated. Thanks for your thoughtful reply, I'll check out the "Avoid self reference" page you suggested. Richard Peterson130.86.14.87 (talk) 23:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Signature Question

Will you help me change my name from red? It must be because I am a newbie. I will try to do it myself. Indy501 (talk) 07:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

There must be an easier way than doing it manually every time (copying someone else) Indy501 ^talk 08:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! There are two ways to make your name "not red." The first is to add some information about yourself to your user page. (See Wikipedia:User page for some ideas). Also, you could look into customizing your signature which is what creates those fancy signatures you see. Hope this helps! --omtay 38 08:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Links to other language wikipedias

What is the purpose of those hidden links at the bottom of articles? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, they're not really hidden. You can see them on the left under 'toolbox' section, and they serve to show articles hat cover the same subject, but in other languages respectively in other wikipedias. They even exist for this help desk page.--Tikiwont (talk) 08:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:54, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

See more at Help:Interlanguage links. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:54, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] shares

if bonus shares and right shares issued at the same date which will take first for investment accounting —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.11.153 (talk) 08:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried the Miscellaneous section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How do I start a discussion topic about a page

There is nothing click to start a new discussion. The page that is bothering me has a word that is completely made up on it and if you search that word on Google loads of web sites use it - they all have quoted directly from whichever was the first to have the word put on it. The word is abarsipent and is on the cress reference page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.74.11 (talk) 10:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your report. Garden cress is the page with the word abarsipent. I'm investigating as to whether it is a hoax entry or whether it is just a misspelling. It was added here and the user's contributions show many misspellings.

You were able to post your comment on this page. I don't understand why you weren't able to add a comment on the discussion page for Garden cress. On the top of the article's page should have been a tab labeled "discussion". Clicking that would have taken you to Talk:Garden cress, where there should have been both an "edit this page" tab and a "+" tab. Did you see something other than these tabs? Sbowers3 (talk) 12:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unable to open my account and not getting my new password from you, Sir

Respected Sir,

I am Haridas Chattopadhyay, Media Manager (Tourism) of A&NI Forest and Plantation Development Corporation Ltd, (removed). My mobile number if (removed). I had already created account with you under my email id (removed) and (removed). But unable to open my account. I want to submit some articles on Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Regards. Yours faithfully, HD Chattopadhyay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.169.217 (talk) 10:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess you are User:Haridas Chattopadhyay. Does Help:Logging in help? If you don't know the password and have not assigned an email address to the account or no longer have access to the email, then you have to create a new account. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Want to get ownership for DTP work..

Hi, This is Muzzammil from NOIDA, I just want to confirm how to get an ownership of DTP work? I want to be a co-ordinator for DTP? Could you Please provide me an information, Where and how to get it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.67.152 (talk) 10:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over two million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the online free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If that is not fruitful, we have a reference desk, divided into various subjects areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 12:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] about physiology

where is physiology —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.112.104 (talk) 11:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Might this be the page you are looking for Physiology? Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 12:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] error on the article HARYANA

Resolved.

dear sir/madam i was editing the article "haryana" and suddenly this message popped up on the article

Cite error: Invalid <ref> tag; refs with no name must have content can you check it why its showing this....i have no idea how to get rid of this. thank you tntboy21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tntboy21 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem was the empty <ref></ref> in the start of [1]. I have removed it. The error message was in the position of the error, so you could have looked at the start of the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question regarding E-mailing Wikipedia's contents to others

Do you guys have a function anywhere on the page that allows one to email your "articles" to others? I know this may seem like a small question, but I can't find a way to do this without cutting and pasteing. Please respond ASAP if you would be so kind. I read your site extensively. Much thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by KarenEleston (talk • contribs) 12:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The format of Wikipedia pages is not well suited for mails. I recommend mailing the url instead. The url should be displayed in your browser address bar and start with http://en.wikipedia.org. If you want to make sure they read the same version as you then click on "Permanent link" in the toolbox to the left before copying the url. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tracking ArbCom - Elvis Presley Article

Some weeks ago I and others submitted a complaint about long-stranding disruption and agenda-pushing by one editor. I have no idea what the state of play is regarding this complaint. Without any information, editors remain in limbo. Any info regarding how to track this process would be appreciated.Rikstar (talk) 13:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The case was declined by the ArbCom. See this revision just prior to being archived. Algebraist 13:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Resuming my account

Can you please help me to resume the use of my account

User name: Eric ferguson (this is a typo, it should have been Eric Ferguson)

Password: (has been lost and forgotten)

My attempt to make a new account "Eric Ferguson" was refused, as the name is too close to the old one.

I do not want to assume a different name.

Please mail a new password to <email removed to avoid spam>

Thanks in advance,

Eric

80.126.150.102 (talk) 13:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid we can't send you a new password. Since your account has not made any edits, and is misspelt anyway, the best thing is for you to use the account 'Eric Ferguson' (admins can create accounts ignoring the similar-name restriction). You can request this account at WP:ACC. Algebraist 13:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replacing Image?? Again

I've posted this question already. Somebody answered, yet it's still not resolved. Please click here for my original post.
Replacing Image??

The problem is not in the CACHE. I tried using other computers and the problem is still there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spratly_with_flags.jpg shows the old file.
click the picture in that page to enlarge it, equivalent to the link below:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/Spratly_with_flags.jpg and it shows the new file.

I uploaded the new file to replace the old. But the old file is still the one displayed for the Image: page. Notice that the two pictures are different. Take a closer at the flags. How can I solve this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Estarapapax (talk • contribs) 14:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Seems fixed now again. This problem is usually caused by the server that makes the "previews" having too much work on its plate. It then takes a while before it "catches up" with making those previews. I happens at times and isn't too much of a problem usually. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] jobs

1)are there any companies that give 10,000 salary for biomedical students completed diploma? 2)for joining in biomedical engineering in osmania university in which branch should i write the ecet exam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahesh05bm12 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried Miscellaneous page on the referce desk yet? Visit me at Ftbhrygvn(Talk|Contribs|Log) 15:00, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Data Errors

How does your site prevent false data replacing factual data? If anyone can edit your material the work may become riddled with opinions instead of facts. This would render this body of knowledge worthless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.37.21.132 (talk) 14:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

We have many policies and guidelines to deal with this. Some editors don't follow them but many others do and remove a lot of bad content. Some links which may interest you: Wikipedia:Replies to common objections, Criticism of Wikipedia, Reliability of Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The key factor the should apply to anything you see in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That is, any article you read should have a list of references at the bottom, and you should be able to verify what you read in the article in those sources. That this isn't true of all articles is a pity, but certainly all good and featured articles will have adequate sourcing. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 21:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replaced with an older version

I was typing this entry and saved it once, and it was replaced with an older versions that I was typing along the way.. why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexOtey (talk • contribs)

Maybe you have to bypass your cache to see the current version. Here are your 3 edits: [2][3][4]. I added a headline to this section. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hiding lists

I've been looking for a way to do this but I can't seem to find it. There are ways to create collapsable lists with entries listed horizontally, such as Template:Lampre. I'd like to create a vertical collapsable list with 200+ entries listed more or less like:

Entry A
Entry B
Entry C
Entry D

etc.

How is that done? -- Leptictidium (mammal talk!) 15:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

A single column collapsible table might work. Like this:

{| class="toccolours collapsible collapsed" width=60%
|-
! colspan="1" | This table will always initially collapse
|-
| Column 1 |
|-
| first entry
|-
| second entry
|}

This table will always initially collapse

* first entry
* second entry

More info can be found at Collapsible tables Good luck. —Noah 16:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Entry keeps getting deleted

I'm quite frustrated in trying to understand the Wikipedia copyright rules and how to proceed

I have tried to add an entry regading a children's singer named 'Miss Amy' - I am this singer's producer - there are several similar entries (Miss Amy has her own merits an uniqunesses) such as :

 - for example
  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Covert
  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Fink
  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raffi_%28musician%29

But every time I have tried to save an entry (even a basic stub) I get rejected (deleted)

First, yes, I copied a paragraph from her web-site, so I was notified that this illegal - after a number of re-wordings & saves the rejections did not stop - then after complete re-wording it still got deleted

- I even tried something as basic as "Miss Amy is a singer/songwriter". (just this one sentence)

- and it too was rejected (?!)

HELP! What does it take to make an entry in Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexOtey (talk • contribs) 15:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Notability! If this performer is not yet notable, any articles about her will be rejected. Her merits and uniqueness are irrelevant. Also: as her producer, you are almost the last person who should be attempting to create an article about her, due to our stringent rules about conflicts of interest. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

My recommendation to you would be to:

Write an article that (among other details) explicitly lays out her claims to notability. You may find our notability guidelines for people and music helpful here.
Go through her press clippings file, and cite (at least) those from reliable sources that verify the claims.
If you wish to use existing web content that you own the copyright to, this is possible. We have no objection to prior publication, but we are very wary of plagiarists, so we make it hard in order to protect your rights. Please consult our page on donating copyrighted materials.
To give yourself breathing space to get things right, you're probably best to start the article as a user sub-page.
Once you feel that the article is ready to brave mainspace again, you might want to ask an established editor to review it and move it for you. You can do this at Wikipedia:Articles for creation or please feel free to leave me a message.

Bovlb (talk) 17:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Some thoughts for other Wikipedians: This is not an uncommon experience for new users. A lot of people are motivated to make their first edits by wanting to create an article on something they're strongly connected with (whether commercially or not). How is it that many of them come to have such a bad time? Article creators are directed to Wikipedia:Your first article, but that page does not indicate how to donate copyright material (nor do the copyvio notices added to the article by either the bot or humans). It does talk a lot about notability and references, but the point about explicitly asserting claims of notability is somewhat buried. The human copyvio notice on the user's talk page does explain fairly clearly how to grant permission. When the article was eventually speedily deleted, it was done under A7 (no notability claim), not G12 (copyright infringement). When the user attempts to edit the deleted article, he is presented with the relevant entry from the deletion log. He can then follow the link from there and find a clear statement that an explicit claim of notability is required. It would be good if users were aware of that up-front before expending such effort. Bovlb (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I've been criticizing this problem for some time. Wikipedia clearly has a usability problem for beginners. I suspect many if not most new users who get the idea of creating new articles on Wikipedia get that idea long before they have any inkling of how many articles Wikipedia deletes. For example, I had been editing articles on Wikipedia for months, and I had actually created a new article (which miraculously survived) before I was even aware that articles on Wikipedia routinely get deleted. I believe the whole Wikipedia interface presents a far too optimistic picture to the new user. Imagine you know nothing about Wikipedia, and just look around the site for a while. Everything you see points to the ease of editing. You see lots of cool articles, and of course you will think of other things you would like to make articles about, especially when you try searching for a topic and find no article about it. Every page has edit links; the Main Page says we have 2,407,652 articles; the whole site seems to be egging people on to try it. Now, obviously Wikipedia is a highly successful site, so clearly the design works, but I believe it works at a very high cost for all the new users we mislead. Jakob Nielsen (noted Web design guru) says the only way to measure the usability of a site is to actually observe users trying to use it. Merely listening to their complaints or focus group comments won't show the whole picture. Unfortunately we cannot readily observe new users and see how they are forming incorrect impressions of Wikipedia, but we can get some clues from the damage reports on the Help desk. I suggest we need to be more proactive about informing new users of the dire consequences of creating new articles before they understand our Byzantine policies and guidelines:

On the Main Page, we should display a count of the total number of deleted articles right next to the count of total surviving articles, and link the count of deleted articles to a page that clearly explains to new users why we delete so many articles.
Someone should study the deleted articles, and see for example if there is any relation between a user's edit count and the survival odds of the first article the user creates. If we find, for example, that 95% of articles by users with 10 or fewer edit counts get deleted, then obviously some sort of earlier intervention is necessary.
If a user has never created a new article, we should insert a warning screen before the user gets to the first edit window where the user is about to create a first article, with a checkbox the user must check to acknowledge the user is aware that the new article will get deleted if it doesn't comply with every one of the vast number of applicable rules.
- The warning should contain links where new users can get quick advice from real humans. Every new user is different, so it will be hard to write one warning message that tells every new user whether their article idea has any chance.

Also see: User:Teratornis/Outplacement. Let's don't try to whitewash Wikipedia, and try to make it look more happy happy joy joy than it really is. The process by which we build Wikipedia can get extremely messy, and most new users will have no clue about how messy things can get before they dive in. If nothing else, we need to somehow get across that new articles by new users have a high chance of getting clobbered. Everybody should know at least that much before they try to create a new article. Also, as I have mentioned before, Wikipedia has no shortage of articles right now. We already have lots of articles, and most of them need work. We should try to discourage new users from creating new articles right away, and steer them into improving our existing articles first. --Teratornis (talk) 18:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't want instruction creep where we have screenfuls of warnings before the edit box, but we could squeeze a few key points into the new article text, like:

"90% of new articles posted on Wikipedia get deleted within 7 days. The top reasons are: no claim of notability, no sources cited, nonsense content, reads like advertising, and copyright violation." These details are made up, but you get the idea.
"See our guidance on creating articles on: people (musicians, academics, celebrities, politicians), organizations (companies, bands, charities, schools), places." For the dozen most common types of new (good-faith yet deleted?) article, we could write a custom page that briefly and specifically guides the new user through the common pitfalls, like notablilty, references, and NPOV..
"Ask for help with your new articles at Wikipedia:Requested articles."

Bovlb (talk) 21:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

We had an involved discussion along the same lines at the village pump but it just died. It would be great if the ideas there and here were amalgamated and this discussion was started again (probably best again at the pump) because the issue isn't going away. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 20#Suggestion to reduce CAT:CSD. I think blend of the ideas there and here, and finishing the Wikipedia:Article wizard, will go some way toward fixing the problem.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:11, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Exactly what I was trying to suggest. Thanks, Bovlb (talk) 00:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Secured editing

Hello, I have a version of wikimedia running on my computer, can I make editing a page password secured, what I mean is only authorized people can edit a page, but everybody can see the page.Thanks

Juan Gonzalez —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.41.32.70 (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course you can. See here for example. Algebraist 16:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, you may mean you have a copy of MediaWiki running on your computer. Wikimedia Foundation is the organization which gives MediaWiki to the world. Not surprisingly, the two names are easy to confuse, and one might suggest this makes the naming scheme ergonomically suboptimal. But we're stuck with it. In any case, since you are running MediaWiki, you should read the MediaWiki Handbook. Also bookmark these two handy searches: Search Meta-Wiki with Google and Search MediaWiki.org with Google. --Teratornis (talk) 17:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] how do i close and delete my wikipedia account?

how do i close my wikipedia account? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bananaho (talk • contribs) 16:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately you can not delete your account (see Wikipedia:Account_deletion#Deleting_your_account).—Noah 17:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Due to the fact that Wikipedia content is licensed under the GFDL, all edits must be kept for attribution purposes, and so your account cannot be deleted. You do, however, have the right to vanish, which you can exercise by (1) requesting your user page (found at Special:Mypage) and/or user talk page (found at Special:Mytalk) be deleted, by adding the {{db-userreq}} template to them; (2) requesting to change your username to something that is unconnected with you (possibly a random collection of letters and numbers); (3) never logging in to your account again. If you do this, you are still free to register a new username if you wish to continue editing Wikipedia.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Succession box

Unsure about the Template:Succession box - I have a British Member of Parliament who served two successive terms as a secondary MP - Frederick Edward Blackett Beaumont Salmanazar (talk) 17:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Use a single box for successive terms. I think [5] is the way to handle a constituency with two MP's. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Salmanazar (talk) 16:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing article. Deleted?

Awhile back, I was sure I saw an article about the "Potters for Peace" organization, however, I don't see it in the search or the deletion log. Any idea what happened? thx.
Mikiemike (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)--

Sometimes you can use Google to search Wikipedia, and Google will still have a cached copy of material that has disappeared. Google search also tolerates misspellings, and finds variant forms of words. You can use the example link in the documentation for {{Google custom}} to search Wikipedia with Google:

Search Wikipedia for: potters for peace

However, that does not seem to find what you are looking for. If you cannot find the article in the deletion log, that means either no such article ever existed here, or it existed under a different name. Note that even the slightest variation in spelling or letter case (other than the first letter) constitutes a different name to the MediaWiki software. I.e., the search for a deleted article is extremely brittle. You must know the exact name of the deleted article. Are you sure you saw the article on Wikipedia, and not on some other site? --Teratornis (talk) 18:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I am also unable to find anything. I doubt there has been an article about the organization in the English Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks very much for the excellent answers
Mikiemike (talk) 18:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)--

[edit] HELP!

Hi! Can someone please unprotect the page "Syed yasir Shah"! When I put this in search it says this page is protected only an administrator can remove it, some one else has created it, I wanted to create the same one, but already exists. So...Please Admin. unprotect this page if possible very soon. Nature01 (talk) 17:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, odd link to article is this but the protection log shows that it has not been protected. How can this be? --The Helpful One 17:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, no deletion log apparent reason is SALTing NN.. but unknown admin? --The Helpful One 17:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The logs are case sensitive. It's Syed yasir shah. Algebraist 17:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This title is currently protected against creation as a result of the article being created and deleted three times in one day, without any indication being made of why the subject of the article is significant. If you want to create the article, you should probably consult the admin involved, User:Jmlk17, explaining why Shah warrants an article. If that fails, you could try Wikipedia:Deletion review. Algebraist 17:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted, for the record, that the original article had a "Thanks to Yasir Shah for his help" note at the bottom of the article! --Orange Mike | Talk 18:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

We are repeating history, further up on this same page:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] Muslims don't like image of Mohammud

Don't give in to their censorship. We have our rights too.– —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.234.239.68 (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure this is appropriate for this section. Try an internet forum. Cheers. Wisdom89 (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. See Depictions of Muhammad and Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

We dislike images of the prophet because it was his request that we make no images ir idols of him. That said I or any other have no right to censor images made by other cultures. However, the comment made by you is insensitive itself. Try and understand Muslim Sharia and custom before preaching your hate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.176.131 (talk) 22:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] Night Watch

Dose anyone think i need to change or reword this Night Watch which i've created, or shall i leave it as it is. Terra ^{Terra's talkpage}

The current format is just fine, otherwise it's kinda stylistic - Terra's Night Watch implies your brainchild. Anybody else? Wisdom89 (talk) 19:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by that. Terra ^{Terra's talkpage} 19:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I mean that it's your brainchild, your idea. My opinion is that you do not have to change anything. The current format is just fine. Did you want a more technical answer in terms of the layout? Wisdom89 (talk) 19:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

No, i just get the impression that it's a bad idea doing it, and wanted someones opinion on it. Terra ^{Terra's talkpage} 19:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suppressing TOC in Sections

Is there a way to keep the headings in a Section from appearing in the article's Table of Contents? I'm working on an article that has only a few sections, but one them, a minor one, has many subsections. These generate a corresponding number of entries in the Table of Contents, making this minor subsection seem far more important than it is. Cleome (talk) 19:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Is {{TOClimit}} what you want? I don't know a way to show a different depth of subsections in different sections. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How do I copy an existing article to a subpage of my user page?

I would like to create my first article, and I'm a bit baffled about how to get started. Therefore, I would like to find an existing article whose format I like, copy it into a subpage of my user page, and edit it there. When I am finished, I want to move the article into Wikipedia. Is there a tutorial about copying and moving articles? Many thanks. Paul wainwright photography (talk) 19:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You might want to read up on [6] or [7]. Also use the sandbox for experimental purposes. Wisdom89 (talk) 19:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Place this code on your userpage or user talk page [[/sandbox]]; save it and it should become a red link. Go to an article you want to use the text of. Click on the "edit this page" link at the top of the article. Copy all the text of the page (cntrl+a should highlight all the text and then cntrl+c should copy it). Go back to where you placed the link and click on it. Paste all the text you copied into the page (cntrl+v should paste it). Go the the bottom of the text and remove the wikilinking (brackets) from the categories. Remove any images that are not free-use. Edit to your hearts content. When you are ready to "go live", move the page to the mainspace.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If you wish, you can come back to the help desk, or go a relevant project discussin page, to ask for comments on your article before moving it to mainspace. -Arch dude (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] state quarter designs

64.8.148.98 (talk) 19:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)I am trying to get a printable image of the fifty state quarters for my classroom. I am having trouble printing them so they fit on the page.

Have you tried the Computing section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. --omtay 38 20:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] multiple file icons

Can you help me figure out how to have an icon represent a file? In particular I'm trying to do this for the Media in Category... section. Right now it just shows a generic icon for every single file.

Here's an example of a specific icon representing each file in this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Icons

Any ideas on how to do that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.81.68.1 (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You could try using <code>__NOGALLERY__</code> but I don't know for sure. _{WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN} ^{round of applause} 21:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

That took away the media in category section and put the files into the articles section. What I'm trying to do is replace the default icons with a custom one for each file. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.81.68.1 (talk) 21:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Which page are you working on? Please provide a link. Thanks. —Noah 22:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The page I'm working on is on an Intranet but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Icons shows an example of what I'm trying to do. On my page instead of a unique image for each file it just shows a generic blank white box with a shadow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.81.68.1 (talk) 22:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that Category:Icons is not doing what you are describing. Category:Icons is showing thumbnail images for image files. That is different that associating an image with a PDF, for example. —Noah 00:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way to show a thumbnail for each file in the Media In section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.81.68.1 (talk) 14:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

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