Talk:Gruffydd ap Llywelyn

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]

	Middle Ages Portal Gruffydd ap Llywelyn is part of WikiProject Middle Ages, a project for the community of Wikipedians who are interested in the Middle Ages. For more information, see the project page and the newest articles.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.
WikiProject Middle Ages To do:

How is the 11th century Gruffydd ap Llewelyn supposed to have "fought Mercia" when Mercia had ceased to have independent existence over a hundred years earlier? L.E./12.144.5.2 02:33, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opening sentence

"Gruffydd ap Llywelyn (c. 1000–August 5, 1063) was the ruler of all Wales from 1055 until his death, one of very few able to make this boast."

Two pedantic observations:

1. He was in fact the only ruler of all Wales from 1055 until his death, hence the only one able to make this boast.
2. Most British monarchs since the 13th Century have been rulers of all Wales (as a geographical area, not a kingdom) until their deaths, unless I'm mistaken.

Of course I know what it's trying to say, but the wording is rather sloppy for the opening sentence of an article. Perhaps easier to remove the bit after the comma, rather than trying to make it strictly accurate. Mtford 04:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marriage and issue

The fact that both Gruffydd's sons were from Ealdgyth is carried over from one unverified genealogy list to the next, without any contemporary source confirming it - or is there? It appears to be quite illogical for two reasons :

1. These two princes gave battle in 1070 to claim their inheritance, when they would have been no more than 11 and 12 years old, too young even by Dark Age Celtic standards to lead an army.
2. Gruffydd would have reached the age of 40+ (57 if we agree on a birth near 1000 as suggested here, and which I find also highly debatable) without any previous union? Of course, it is not impossible - Llewelyn the Last did not marry until his fifties' - but we know Gruffydd carried off his southern rival's wife in 1046, could she not be a concubine and mother of his sons? Old Welsh law recognized several forms of union, so I heard...

As for Gruffydd's birth date, something in the late 1010's appears more credible. c.f. his father's biography. Condor October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.196.50.204 (talk) 14:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It appears that the writer of this page has confused the many Ediths associated with the Godwinson family - very easy to do, considering the number of them. This page links Gruffydd ap Llywelyn to Edith Swansneck (multiple spellings), the common law wife of Harold Godwinson (who was his partner for well over 15 years) rather than to Edith, daughter of the Earl of Mercia, who was likely married to Harold in a political marriage (sanctioned by the church) in early 1066. (It does not appear that she has her own wikipedia page.) I would correct the link, but I'm new to this and will rely on others to weigh in and clean up, if they see fit. 12.47.208.50 (talk) 06:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)