Talk:Green Peafowl

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Sorry, but the first statement is a POV. Who is to say what the most beatiful kind is?--Zhang Lmao 08:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Quote from WWF website [[1]] : "a male Green Peafowl in its full plumage is surely among the most beautiful and spectacular birds in the world". Also in several books about pheasants and breeders. What is POV ? --Stavenn 12:04, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Point of view. Frankyboy5 23:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 BREAKING NEWS: 5 Species of Green Peacock and 11 supspecies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 Information veracity and citations 3 Thailand 4 Removed uncited content

[edit] BREAKING NEWS: 5 Species of Green Peacock and 11 supspecies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From article: "Some taxonomists believe that the endangered Green Peafowl is actually a complex of five distinct species although they are currently treated as one species with three subspecies ^{[citation needed]}."

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Breaking News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This can now be confirmed!!!!!!!!!!!!! One source tells of many morphotypes and species[2]!!!!!!!. Unfortunately many photos cannot show up. But I found a photo of what looks like a golden colored green peacock[3]!!!!!!!!!!!! They claim there is a unique form of blue peacock [4]. Strangely colored forms can be seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We now have proof of more than one species of Green Peafowl!!!!!!!!!!!!! Frankyboy5 23:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

This is not a reliable source, thus can't be added to the article because it is WP:OR. Once the new (sub)species is reported in mainstream media and/or peer-reviewed scientfic articles, then it can be added. Leuko 23:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

What I am trying to say is that people reliable or not, are believing that new species of peafowl exist and that these birds look much different [5]. Frankyboy5 00:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but this is an encyclopedia, so all sources must be reliable to maintain the integrity of the project. While it is interesting that some people on an internet group think they have a picture that looks different and they have found a new species, until such time when their claims are verified by a reliable source it can not be added to an encyclopedia, since it is original research. Leuko 01:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The webmaster is going to nake a more professional site soon[6]. Frankyboy5 23:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Bigger news!!!!! Another site(possibly by same people) agrees [7]!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, a link to a web photo gallery is not a reliable source to prove these species exist. Leuko 03:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Those birds look very much different. Some are duller. They even compared them with each other and pointed out to many key differences. Then there's the weird golden one. The reason for no other sources but these two is that they don't want publish their findings quite yet. They say they will change things in the next few months. They even stated a more professional site happening soon. Frankyboy5 04:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

They also said:

"Delacour thought it might be identical with Javanese birds but admitted how few skins he had for hard science data." [8]

This might mean that Jean Théodore Delacour also believed there is more than one species. Frankyboy5 01:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

My user page also has some info about this. Well, these sources are the only two as of now that point out about the new species, but these sources are also very isolated. Frankyboy5 01:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, the german site of the World Pheasant Association points out that the subspecies imperator has subspecies as well, as if there is subspecies inside subspecies inside subspecies. Very complex, but there was a mention about P. m. annamensis. Even this more autorative site is messed up. I translated the site, which made it even more messed up [9]. Frankyboy5 01:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Information veracity and citations

This article is constantly gathering information that does not cite reliable references. There are citations of casual communications with people over various forums which would be better placed on blogs. Shyamal 05:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The "annamese" does differ from the average imperator. See this bird from Yunnan (or at least that form) [10] and that its head is clearly blue and its body is clearly golden. Compare it with another bird found in Yunnan (or at least another form from Yunnan) [11] and you can clearly see the differences, even though both are supposedly imperators. Even one of Wolfgang Mennig's male imperators also look like an annamensis (blue head, gold sheen) and he is aware of the annamensis species/subspecies. Frankyboy5 15:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I would have no trouble if you cited at least a field guide. Birds can show numerous plumage variations. Why do you think this is a named subspecies. If it named who is the trinomial author ? Where is this published ? Shyamal 16:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all, Wolfgang Mennig was one of the first to mention it, indicating that it was already named, possibly by him. Kermit believes the birds shown in both photos are from Yunnan, but are distinct species from each other. Kermit did not make the name up, unless Mennig is using his names (the two actually know each other). I saw a photo somewhere on a french website with drawings of the differences in the six species (site was by a french fan of peafowl, and the pic was used with permission from "Kermit (Black) Wood") [12]. Leave the fact tag and don't remove it, Kermit is still working on volume 1 (Peafowl) of Encyclopedia Gallinacea. The data was gathered since 1985, and he is still researching. He is right that certain imperators do have bluer heads, and that Yunnan birds are different. Frankyboy5 23:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Please check WP:CITE and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Shyamal 02:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thailand

"Green Peafowls are found today in Southeast Asia in easternmost northern India, Assam, mainland Burma, Tibet, Yunnan, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and on the island of Java in Indonesia."

But not Thailand? :? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.246.197 (talk) 01:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed uncited content

Have removed a number of uncited statements including the use of words like dragonbird which are not seen outside of wikipedia. Shyamal (talk) 03:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think it should be removed too. Kermit himself came and also edited parts of it. Apparently the description is now a bit misleading. Imperator has a green neck and the facial skin of the Green Peafowl is not dull but varied, but has a white axe and a yellow crescent. The name Dragonbird is used though in at least one place. Apparently, at the Bronx Zoo, it says under Green Peafowl that it is called the Dragonbird because it feeds on venomous snakes. Kermit has had some association with the Wildlife Conservation Society, and it is said he's working with them on the new revision of taxonomy. Unfortunately, this has to wait until around 2010. However, we should leave most of the article as it is now. Frankyboy5 (talk) 23:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Please do take a look at WP:RS. Any statements lacking proper citations will have to be removed. Personal communication with anybody is not considered as reliable. Shyamal (talk) 01:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)