Talk:Great Patriotic War (term)

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Contents 1 Term 2 The separation between Eastern Front (World War II) and Great Patriotic War articles 3 Not nonsense, since boh terms needs to be represented 4 Propaganda usage 5 Why the “(term)” is necessary 6 "See Also" section is a mess

[edit] Term

I've also seen claims of World War 2 being referred to by Russians as the Great Patriotic Anti-Fascist War. The author of the following article claims this. http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp1003.html 67.53.78.15 01:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the tem itself deserves medium importance, while the war itself of course desrves the highest possible mark Alex Bakharev 00:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a different article about this other term, if indeed it is or has been fairly widely used in Russia. Since this article is about an alternative name for the war (alternative outside the US at least) and not about the war itself. There are often different terms for events or place in different countries, so it could be neither irrelevant, nor merely political in nature (as reference to a website that is political in nature and does not pretend the myth of non-bias might make one think). In the US, the war with Vietnam is called the "Vietnam War", in Vietnam I believe it is called something like "the American war". And the word "Japan" is not used by Japanese to describe their country or land, but "Nihon". In the US, veterans will say they went to fight Hitler and fascism, though still will call it World War 2. Author Thomas Mann in his 1938 This Peace (Dieser Friede) criticizes the British ruling class for putting up with Hitler because they like him as a bulwark against communism, it was not all the population that were not for fighting fascism, or even acting as if they had to choose one over the other. I guess what I am trying to say is, acknowledging the term "Great Patriotic Anti-Fascist War" is not pro-Soviet propaganda. In the world outside of wikipedia, I'd personally like to see WW2 more recognized as the anti-fascist war it was. Or, at least the anti-fascist war soldiers knew they were fighting. Children of the generation born after WW2 sang school-kid songs flaming both Mussolini and Hitler. I heard my father sing it for the first time this past year. 67.53.78.15 17:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The separation between Eastern Front (World War II) and Great Patriotic War articles

I would like to say that the current separation between the Eastern Front (World War II) and Great Patriotic War articles here in Wikipedia is an absolute nonsense, since boh terms describes the same event.

To create a tiny separate article called "Great Patriotic War" just to separate the term from the mainstream Historiography is just a mere pro-neo-Soviet POV, in my opinion.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.232.230.158 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 17 July 2007

O unsigned anonymous editor, the article "Great Patriotic War" is clearly about the TERM rather than the events described. 3 of 4 paragraphs actually begin with "the term". Eleland 19:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I would argue that the two articles should be merged and that this article should become a section of the Eastern Front article. Otherwise this article merely seems redundant. Tiger Khan (talk) 13:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It's about the term, not the war. The term does intentionally ignore Stalin's earlier invasions of Poland, the Baltics, etc. and collusion with Hitler. That will eventually have to go back in the article. —PētersV (talk) 15:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I would still argue that discussion of the term could be part of the greater Eastern Front article, allowing for the consolidation. Tiger Khan (talk) 06:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not nonsense, since boh terms needs to be represented

All opinions are valid. That being said it is an objective fact that World War 2 is not called World war two in Russia (even by pro-neo-fascists in that country) The "Eastern Front" was the WESTERN front to the Soviets. The west is not now and never will be the center of the world. Nor will capitalist imperialist intrests last forever. Ignorance and intolerance, unfortunatley, will always exist. This article describes the term not the event. p.s. proof-read your edits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.167.190 (talk • contribs) 07:30, 22 July 2007

The above is a completely pointless discussion on semantics written by a biased source, and I believe should be ignored. Spelling mistakes aside.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sieurfill (talk • contribs) 22:19, 5 December 2007

[edit] Propaganda usage

I had to kill the paragraph which said that the term Great Patriotic War was a deliberate diversion from previous Nazi-Soviet friendly relations and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact; while an interesting thesis it needs to be sourced and attributed rather than appearing as the opinion of one editor. This being said, it was certainly a term of propaganda, and it would be interesting to have some properly sourced material on its anatomy as such. Eleland 20:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why the “(term)” is necessary

The “(term)” is necessary in the title because there is a need to differentiate from the denomination “Great patriotic War” to the event that this name describes — which is known and recognized by most of the world as the Eastern Front of World War II.

This discussion is somehow similar to the Hirohito name question; until now, the “Showa Emperor” article is named this way in Wikipedia because most of the world outside Japan knows and denominate Showa as Hirohito.--MaGioZal (talk) 18:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "See Also" section is a mess

It is not clear how Soviet invasion of Poland (1939), Winter War, Occupation of the Baltic states, Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina articles (all of which describe events pre-GPW) ended up in this section. I'll remove it now. RJ CG (talk) 15:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)