Talk:Grape seed oil
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I suffer because of blurred terminology...Should first things not be first, "What ..(the subject under discussion is),should be first and foremost be defined, we should say what we are we talking about...before thundering away and describe all sorts of detail, I humbly suggest (and beg) that the DEFINITION must ALWAYS the introductoryline, meaning the subject must initially be circumscribed. I still don't know whether the term "grapeseed" and "grapeseedextract is the same...
Two suggestions: I would explain the "Treatment" section better - are these folk remedies? Proven medical benefits? How are they applied? - and I would rearrange the sections, so that "Treatment" and "Medical Information" are together, and "Modern Uses" is listed first. Otherwise, very good stuff. Scooter 00:03, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] factual accuracy questioned
i agree with Securiger below. i'm very worried about much of the so-called facts on this page too.it's not cited and many other sources contradict the info mentioned here.i labelled dubious sentences where appropriate and asked for some sources to prove the info there.my role here?i added a link that supports the little (but confirmed) info i providedGrandia01 (talk) 00:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I am very concerned about this page - especially as it seems to be in Google's number two spot for "grape seed oil" AND medical
I arrived by a round-about route and know very little about the subject, but it sounded so much like an "infomercial" from the grape seed oil industry that I felt obliged to do a bit of Googling. Some of the medical claims do not seem to be supported in any medical references, although they are widely echoed on vendors' web sites. For example, the oligomeric proanthocyanidins (OPC) referred to are indeed found in grape seeds (but mainly in the skins), and are indeed considered valuable in the treatment of several conditions of the veins. However OPCs are polar molecules that are practically insoluble in nonpolar oil, so contrary to popular myth there isn't any OPC in grape seed oil! [1] If you want grape OPCs, viable sources include fresh grapes, grape seed extract, grape juice, and red wine; in fact anything except the oil.
Furthermore several of the other claimed medical uses just do not seem to be supported at all, either for GSO or GSE.[2] Breast cancer, for example: the closest to a supportive statement that I could find on any vaguely medical looking web site was on a few "complementary health" sites that recommended various antioxidants, including OPCs, to help prevent cancer. Even if GSO contained OPCs this is speculative - albeit a reasonable speculation - and contains nothing at all about treating the cancer after it has occurred. (Antioxidants prevent cancer by absorbing free radicals before they can attack DNA. Logically there is no reason why a material which works this way, would have any effect at all on the cancer after it was formed, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it does so.) Yet the article is written in such a way as to give the impression that it is standard medical practice to treat breast cancer with GSO.
However, I acknowledge that I am no expert in this area. Would someone who is please examine this article and determine if it is valid, or is Wikipedia being used to hawk snake oil?
Once we have sorted fact from fiction, we can start refactoring it; as Scooter points out, the article is also rather incoherent (e.g. 1/4 of the "Cooking" section is actually further medical claims). Securiger 10:35, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The following has been removed from the article pending fact-checking:
BEGIN
[edit] Treatment for
Atherosclerosis, breast cancer, Constipation, hair disorders, hypercholesterolemia, hypertension, lung cancer, macular degeneration, pancreatitis, varicose veins.
Also softens dry skin.
Studies have shown that grape seed-derived oligomeric proanthrocyanidins (OPC) prevents cardiovascular disease and can counteract the negative effects of high cholesterol on the heart and blood vessels. OPC's are a set of bioflavonoid complexes that perform as free radical scavengers in the human body. These OPCs can help protect against the effects of internal and environmental stresses (that is, cigarette smoking, pollution, and suporting normal body metabolic processes). The effects are; depressing blood fat, emolliating blood vessels, lowering blood pressure, preventing blood vessel scleroses, dropping blood viscidity and preventing thrombus formation (a type of platelet clot).
END -- WormRunner 05:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I've NPOV'd the latter paragraph above and parked it at Oligomeric proanthrocyanidin. Mkweise 05:26, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Nash and JACC article?
I can't find the paper in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology that this article cites. The number "925-116" in the citation doesn't make sense to me. No 1993 article in the JACC starts on page 925 or page 116. Google for several variations on the article title reveals nothing. Some Google hits have citations like "J Am Coll Cardiol 1993;21:318-20", but again, no such article exists. See for yourself. [3]
Medline and JACC searches for Nash DT, Nash SD, Grant WD, "grape seed", "grapeseed", and combinations of those terms reveal no articles fitting the citation. I found one Web page that cites something believable: Nash DT, Nash SD, Grant WD. Grapeseed oil, a natural agent which raises serum HDL-C levels. Presented at the American College of Cardiology 42nd Annual Scientific Session, Mar 15, 1993, Anaheim, Calif
I have a feeling that I'll find the abstract of the presentation here: 42nd Annual Scientific Sessions. Anaheim, California, March 14-18, 1993. Abstracts. Journal of the American College of Cardiology. 21(2 Suppl A):1A-578A, 1993 Feb.
Unfortunately, JACC doesn't have supplements from that far back online. I'm deleting the reference and modifying the text appropriately until I can get to the library.
Significant deleted text follows:
- D.T. Nash, S.D. Nash, State University of New York Health Science Center at Syracuse, W.D. Grant, Department of Family Medicine, State University of New York Health Science Center at Syracuse, Syracuse, New York: Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 925-116 Grapeseed Oil, A natural Agent Which Raises Serum HDL levels, 1993.
--Officiallyover 07:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
- I just wrote to the editor who originally put in this reference and asked him/her to check it. Badagnani 08:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Grapeseed Oil As Major Fat Source
Grapeseed oil appears to be very high in omega-6 while low in omega-3. Apparently this is a common problem with the American diet already, and that such an imbalance may cause immune system depression, along with weight gain. Any verification of this? Jadxia 18:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I have had a great deal of trouble finding out if the edible grape seed oil is blended. Any information about this is crucial, as it means we aren't consuming the pure oil. I feel this needs clarifying in the future. "The best ideas are common property." 09:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- That's usually what "virgin" and "extra virgin" mean - i.e. contains no blended/refined oil (and is therefore 100%). At least, everywhere else except the US it seems. See Olive oil grades Jon (talk) 09:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] References
I've had a go at fleshing out the refs. The Nash study seems unpublished, but should be in their proceedings (seminar presentation). Jon (talk) 11:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] How long has it been used?
How long has grapeseed oil been used (particularly for cooking), and what is the historical evidence for this use? Badagnani (talk) 01:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
