Talk:Grace O'Malley
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Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (October 2007) |
This article needs to be expanded. There is considerable information about Granuaile in public records and in books that is not mentioned in this article. Her privateering and political maneuvering are barely mentioned at all. Also, sources need to be cited. I'm beginning to add cites to Anne Chambers' books, and will continue to expand the information over time. Aramink 22:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I am the author of the web page linked to externally. It's my own research and my own words. If someone wants to edit it into this wikipedia entry they have my full permission. (The poem is not mine though.) --jaymin 13:10, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Great work J. My only crib is that her name was'nt Grace, it was Grainne. Any chance of at least calling her that in the article? Fergananim
Checking references in Anne Chamber's book titled Graunuaile, p. 147 an engraving dated 1793 calls her "Grana Uile". Bingham refers to her as "Grainy O'Maly" (p. 141), "Mother Grany" (p. 121). Walsingham as "Grayn Ny Mayle", p. 100. Dury as "Granie ny Maille" (p. 88) and "Grany O'Mayle" (p. 87). Sidney as "Grany Imallye", p. 85. In her petition to Elizabeth in 1593 she calls herself "Grany ny Mally".
Historically there is no "right name". I think the English speaking audience is most familar with her as "Grace O'Malley" so, for clairity, I would suggest this is the appropriate nominative to use for this article.
--jaymin 20:45, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Aye, but all those people were English! And if you look at what they've written, its the phonetic reproduction of Grainne, not Grace. Which she does - above - herself too!
"Historically there is no "right name"." I must beg to differ! She was Gráinne ní Owen Dubhdara O Mháille. Grace O Malley is the English version of her proper name! In your introduction you introduce her as "Grace O' Malley (Irish Gráinne Ní Mháille, also known as Granuaile or Gráinne Mhaol)" when it should be the other way around. (i.e., "Gráinne Ní Mháille, also known as Granuaile or Gráinne Mhaol (English: Grace O Malley)."
In all honesty, I accecpt your nameing the article by her English name, but don't you think there is a case for changeing the first few sentences the way I outlined? Saying stuff like Historically there is no "right name" is something I would have expected from a 19th centuary English person; it sounds very ignoble in this day and age. Fergananim P.S: Happy birthday!
Just a note that as an English-speaking Canadian, I knew her as Gráinne ní Mháille, although there is also a chain of pubs named after her in Ontario. Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 01:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I am irish and before reading this article i had never heard her referd to as "Grace O'Malley" only Gráinne Mhaol. Grace O'Malley leaves a sour tast in my mouth. i strongly suggest that the article title be changed to Gráinne Mhaol. would you change Attila the Hun to 'Timmy' because it is more familiar.
- If it were more familiar to English speakers, then yes. Wikipedia has some established guidelines which apply here: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles) are both relevant. My reading of these says that since "Grace O'Malley" is more familiar to English speakers, that's where the article should be. It's no different from having the article on Charlemagne at Charlemagne rather than the more accurate Carolus Magnus. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Many Wrong Things
This article doesn't seem so accurate--at least, to me. I believe Grace O'Malley was three years older then Elizabeth I of England, but in "Later Life" it says they are approximately the same age. Interestingly, this same article lists Grace's birth year as 1530, and Elizabeth was born in 1533. It also says that Grace refused to bow to Elizabeth because Grace herself was a Queen (of WHAT? I've never heard of this, now!). I believe the actual reason was because Grace didn't recognize Elizabeth as her own Queen, and wished to show Elizabeth this. I also believe that, in the section where it speaks of her marriage to Donal O'Flaherty, it should list her daughter and two sons that resulted from this marriage (Margaret, Owen, and Murrough). I also believe it should be noted that she supported many Irish rebellions against the English, and, therefore, was known as 'The Mother of All Rebellions'.
Since there were no further comments I've corrected/added/deleted the article to fit the above statement.
- It did say "approximately". 3 years isn't a big difference in one's early sixties.
[edit] Editing
Because of a recent editor, I've re-written a paragraph so that it makes better sense, and am going to add an entire section about Grace's meeting with Elizabeth, since that was a very important part of her life.(This added by User:KEB on 15:21, 10 July 2006--File Éireann 19:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC))
[edit] Jan Rogozinski
Since Rogozinski's Pirates! is so popular and so widely plagiarised by people running pirate sites, lots of people have picked up on his mistaken belief that Grainne was fictional. Should we perhaps, to avoid confusion, add a section mentioning this mistake and the likely reasons why Rogozinski made it?
[edit] Shaun Davey
There's no reference to the Grainuaile suite! I don't have the references to hand, so anybody in the meantime?--Shtove 22:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Early Life
The introduction lists her birth as "c.1530" whereas her birth year is affirmatively stated in this paragraph. I'm correcting it, since there are no sources listing a specific birth year for Grainne Ni Maille in anything I'm aware of. If I'm wrong, please change it back, and include a reference for the date. Aramink 14:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Citations
This article relies too heavily upon Ireland's Pirate Queen: The True Story of Grace O'Malley. This article should incorporate several other sources for more accuracy and a more balanced picture of Grace O'Malley.--Redroven (talk) 03:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Oró Sé do Bheatha 'Bhaile
'Oró Sé do Bheatha 'Bhaile' - the version you refer to is not, strictly speaking, a traditional song but is an existing pro-Jacobite melody/song from the 18th century with new words written by Padraig Pearse (poet - executed for his part in the 1916 rebellion). Gráinne Mhaol is mentioned in 2 verses but the bereaved widow/imprisoned lady you cite is possibly just a general symbol for Ireland. You can check this through discussions on the Mudcat folk music site. Seán Báite (talk) 23:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox
could whoever messed up the infobox please fix it. Adaircairell (talk) 14:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC) ==Descendants.Does Grainne have any confirmed descendants alive today?The article doesn't say whether she does or not.13:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)jeanne (talk)
