Talk:Full-frame digital SLR

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-04-04. The result of the discussion was Keep.

The term "full-frame" is controversial in that it only applies where a range of lenses are designed for a sensor that is equivalent in size to a 135 film negative, but also compatible with smaller sensors, except that the image is "cropped". This distinction not applicable to other systems such as Nikon or 4/3 where the lenses are designed for the particular size sensor, and therefore use the "full frame" of the image circle. The article has been amended accordingly. The following chunk has been removed:

It follows from the above definition that cameras using a lens mount that was designed for digital SLRs (such as the Olympus Four Thirds System) are not full frame cameras. Similarly, a camera using a hypothetical new mount system and featuring a 24mm x 36mm sensor (the size of a 35mm film frame) would not be full frame. In practice, however, the term is often used to simply mean a camera having a sensor the same size as a full 35mm frame, while the applicability of the term to four thirds system cameras is a matter of much, often heated, debate. The chief reason that digital SLRs have not been full frame is to do with the cost of producing such large sensors. As chip sizes get larger, the yield gets drastically lower and thus the prices higher. Moore's law does not apply here; most of the semiconductor industry's advances in affordability have been driven by the ability to make circuits smaller and smaller, but an imaging chip must remain large, and such large chips get cheaper only slowly. The secondary reason is that digital imaging chips tend to have a much narrower range of acceptance angles than film. Thus, the sensor will be less sensitive to light towards the edges of the image circle, where the light rays are likely to be further from perpendicular. Adding to this, lenses tend to produce poorer results towards the edge of the circle in any case. A smaller image sensor stays within the "sweet spot" of the lens and sensor combination with less difficulty. While a digital camera for any format could be full frame, in practice most examples produced have been for 35mm format. The first, fairly unsuccessful attempt was by Contax with a Philips sensor; Pentax worked with this sensor as well, producing a prototype MZ-D, but abandoned it before production. Eastman Kodak produced three models of full-frame camera, but all are now discontinued. The company that has had the most success with full-frame sensors is Canon Inc., whose full-frame sensor cameras have been very successful in the high-end professional photography field. Their newly released model, the Canon EOS 5D, seeks to emulate that success at a much lower price point.'

In general this section makes assertions that are not sourced and more in tune with debate across discussion forums rather than ascertainable technical or objective facts. Hmette

Ouch. it's much too long. I think I've just covered most of this in a paragraph and a bit.Zombiflava 20:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Deletion

On further reflection - it may be that this article should be deleted on the basis that it comes under the category of neologisms. Does anyone have any coment before I add it to the list for deletions? --Hmette 02:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

What's the policy on neologisms? Dicklyon 03:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry that link should have gone here: Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms. Basically that pages shouldn't be created for them.

Neologisms are words and terms that have recently been coined, generally do not appear in any dictionary, but may be used widely or within certain communities.

--Hmette 03:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I know what neologisms are, but the page doesn't say there can't be articles about them, just that they need to be supported by good secondary sources. Seems like we've got that. Dicklyon 04:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Wiki is a neologism. I've had a look at this article and added some bits. it looks as if it used to be "full frame", and has been moved to "full frame digital SLR". the problem is that if companies start making full frame cameras taht aren't SLRs (unlikely, but leica might do it), there would have to be a "full frame digital compact" article and a "full frame digital rangefinder" article, and that would be wasteful. Zombiflava 20:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] additional models

Are there now additional brandsand models available, including some of the top-of-the-line Nikons? DGG 21:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

No, Nikon does not make one, as far as I know. I don't know of any missing. Dicklyon 22:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Why only list the Canon's in the currently available section? Perhaps it could be expanded to current & phased out cameras in order to incorporate Kodak's cameras etc. At any rate the EOS-1Ds Mk. I is perhaps considered obsolete by Canon nowadays or in the near future and as such does not fit in the section. Just a thought. 130.232.145.230 11:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge, delete, etc. discussion

The AfD proposal had not gottten any support, but I added there the idea of some re-organization. Since this article has bits about other uses of full-frame, and there are other full-frame digital cameras than SLRs, potentially, and since we've got articles on image sensor format and crop factor, why not rationalize all this? I'll start by making a full frame (disambiguation). To me, it makes most sense to redirect crop factor to image sensor format where there would be a section on it, and to also redirect this article there, and make one of the disambig links go there, and have sections explaining the full-frame format in relation to the other formats, and relation being the crop factor. Comments? Dicklyon 16:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)