Talk:Four Asian Tigers

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[edit] Chinese influence?

Perhaps we can consider mentioning something about the Chinese cultural sphere of influence. Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore have majority Chinese populations while South Korea had been a tributary state to China for centuries and has absorbed many elements of Chinese culture. Though Japan does not belong in the East Asian Tigers, perhaps we can also mentioned something about historical Chinese influences in Japan similar to those in Korea. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence but it seems that the East Asian Tigers and Japan, which are currently Asia's 5 most developed economies, have had some cultural connection with China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.217.81 (talk) 13:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] East Asian Tigers - More?

I'm surprised there has been no discussion about the membership of this group. Mahathir refers to Malaysia as one of the tigers [1], and other articles refer to Malaysia, Thailand and perhaps Indonesia as some of the tigers [2] [3]. I believe Yergin in "Commanding Heights" does as well. Do these other countries merit discussion here? Fuzheado 07:58, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Southeast Asian Tigers? --Jiang

Could... but the problem is many folks don't use that term much, and instead wind up using anything east of Bangladesh as the east asian tigers. Fuzheado 10:03, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I can recall reading the term tiger cubs used for Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia. This may well have been in an article in the Far Eastern Economic Review or The Economist. -- Alan Peakall 19:01, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] East Asian Tigers - More? -> Celtic Tiger

Another country that has earned a tiger badge is Ireland; Ireland has been called the "Celtic Tiger" for its high growth in the 90s, with a focus on select high-tech industries. - fueled somewhat by cheaper labor, relative to the EU.

This article should focus a bit more on what it means to be a "Tiger Economy" - there were mentions that there are several key differences in the tiger economies, but no examples were given; also, some space should be given to examine the specific traits of the tiger economies besides Taiwan.

Maybe there should also be some mention of how these economies leveraged cheap labor & education into wealth.

Another point that might be added somewhere about Tiger economies (relative to China and India) is that they are in relatively much smaller nations (easier to achieve high growth in smaller economies, but less so in larger ones like Indonesia (I'm not sure if Indonesia has ever been classified as a "Tiger").

In addition, there seems to be too much politically-motivated information here regarding China and Taiwan. A lot of that information is, imo, rather unnecesary in a discussion of "traditional" East Asian Tigers; maybe that can be moved to a "China vs. Tiger Economy" comparison page? - the information is interesting but not quite relevant

Also, I think it would be useful to mention how all of the tigers are/have run into trouble once the cost of labor reached relative equivalence with other developed nations, as a "limits" to the export-driven model and a need for a new paradigm

--Confuzion 07:58, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison with India faulty

I stripped out the demographic argument about India. If you look at the top of the article, it is not part of what is common among the Tigers. The introduction is correct and demographic policy initiatives are not really considered the defining aspect of the Tigers. Furthermore, most demographers would say that population is a function of economic development, not the other way around.

I would suggest that anyone wishing to argue this should look at the pattern of global development as well. Though population planning has been carried out in numerous countries, the Tigers are the rare economic success not especially known for their population initiatives. 69.16.84.16 17:53, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] High tariff on import?

As far as I know, Hong Kong is a free-trade port, high tariff is only imposed on certain luxury goods such as automobiles and cigarettes. If this is true, would it be more appropriate to change the relevant item in the "Common characteristics of Tiger Economy" section?

[edit] Taiwan only, nothing else here

This article seems to solely focus on Taiwan, with a little on South Korea for a token, a slim one at that, of balance. Land reform is a common characteristic? Singapore and Hong Kong under land reform??? There's nothing in this article about HK or Singapore

I think this article should be renamed the Tawainese Tiger Economy, and appropriate parts excised for a new "East Asian Tigers" article. 132.205.15.43 20:04, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That's because KMT people in Taiwan are bias and really gay all over themselves when Taiwanese did all the hard works! They (ROC) also love their bent over because KMT are so goddamn homo OEM strategy instead of the better OBM (Brand) strategy like Japan and South Korea are doing!

Iron_Jackal_TW —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.18.109.120 (talk • contribs) 2007-03-24 13:05:42

[edit] Views on article

It looks a lot better now with the pictures, and they are about as relevent as pictures can be for this article, so should be left that way.

In response to the section above, Taiwan is only used as a classic example of the development and growth which has taken place, from this article, people can also delve further into the stories of South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore...

One thing to ask - earlier I edited the section of the introduction which refers to Chinese spellings of the term - to me it just looked out of place, as Korean and Malay spellings are not needed - is the term 'little dragons' somehow culturally important enough to spell specifically like this? Whatever the case, ive left Huaiwei's reversion as it is.

Good work everyone. Vastu

The reason why the Chinese characters are included, is because the reference is also relatively widely used in Chinese-speaking communities, particularly for the phrase "Four little dragons", the English phrase being a literal translation of the Chinese version. The association with dragons points to its Chinese cultural underpinnings, and they are "little" in relation to the "big" dragon...China. I would personally think this is detail worth including since they refer to the same four entities.--Huaiwei 11:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for explaining :-) Vastu

No problem. ;) Do feel free to improve on it thou, as I am still writing from the "Chinese/Asian" perspective. I sometimes wonder how the non-Chinese would react to it.--Huaiwei 08:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

It is very good right now - I live in the west, and am interested in economics - from my perspective it is very informative and directs me to further information such as land reform, etc. Vastu

Oh ok glad you find it ok. ;)--Huaiwei 09:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge into, or move out

Taiwan miracle should either be merged into this article (under the "Taiwan: A Case study" section), or the contents of the section should be merged into Taiwan miracle and removed/reduced from this article--Confuzion 04:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Who coined the term? When and where did the term first appeared in publication (or broadcasting or whatever)? — Insta ntnood 22:01, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting spelling mistakes

I don't really care whether Traditional is listed first or second, but it is assuming bad faith, not to mention being really destructive, to be mass reverting articles so that spelling several errors are reinserted. If you undo legitimate, uncontroversial edits, such as by deliberately and recklessly inserting spelling errors, you are committing simple vandalism. I have reverted Alanmak accordingly, not out of preference for Instantnood's version in the core of the dispute, but for reinserting spelling errors.

And remember that the edit summaries are for justifying your edits, not for communicating with the other person. If the two of you want to argue it out, please do so here. --Jiang 02:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yet the same is still happening: 01:50, April 21, 2006, 03:32, April 22, 2006. Sigh~ — Insta ntnood 04:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Alanmak's edit

Re user:Alanmak's edit summary " Revert Instant's edit - If I overdo a revert, restore the things that I have overdo WITHOUT adding your POV gabbage, so that other people don't have to waste time reverting your rubbish every time.THX " [4] - I've added nothing to the article in the last few edits which user:Alanmak keeps reverting. And.. as I recalled, two of the four participants mentioned about the infobox style style in the discussion, but I don't think user:Huaiwei was suggesting to replace the inline style with infobox style. User:Yuje was the only person to have suggested that explicitly. That's hardly a consensus as user:Alanmak has claimed [5] [6]. — Insta ntnood 04:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison to India

I have reduced that section to remove parts of remark that I think is non-relevant to the topic such as economic history (in the 10th century etc). But I kept the main point. Heilme 10:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Box format not needed

We should use the inline format instead of the box format because there are only three items on the list - t,s,p - so breaking it off to the side is unnecessary. Three items does not create clutter in the line, while the box is competing for the same space as the img (creating some whitespace on my browser).--Jiang 00:53, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

In the absence of any dissenting comments, so exists the consensus mentioned at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (China-related articles) on whether to use a box.--Jiang 03:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Industrial Harmony

Economic success in Japan, followed by the baby east Asian Tigers, has been attributed to the existence of harmonious labor-management relations. “Industrial Harmony” is this unique “Culture of harmony” that was consciously invented and developed over the last century in Japan. A semi-bureaucratic organization called the “Kyochokai” (The Co-operation and Harmony Society) was established in 1819 to meet the needs of an emerging industrial society. The “Kyochokai” took the lead in trying to define the values which would be suitable for a new japanese-style industrial society, at the time of great social troubles in industrial Europe. The resulting “invented” tradition has played an important role in the evolution and character of Japanese economic values and behavior of social peace for economic development.

Takima 22:56, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing dispute

Please don't use revert + comments in editing summaries to replace talking in this page, solve disputes through talking, not just revert. ([7] & [8]) Discuss the changes here. --WinHunter ^(talk) 04:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate focus

While East Asian Tigers is about the economic success of Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and Korea, large part of the article focuses on China and India. — HenryLi (Talk) 02:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "four dragons" with one dragon pic missing

Is it me or did anyone else noticed that there are only 3 of the 4 "dragons" pics in the article.

here is a link to a very nice Singapore[9] skyline

WikiSnake 11:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removed bogus undervalued currencies claims

I have removed the bogus claims on common characteristics, as Hong Kong Dollar was floating freely (subject to no intervention from Central Bank of England) prior to 1983, and Hong Kong had already begun its transformation to service industry driven economy by 1980. Kommodorekerz 06:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

the currencies of the tigers wasn't devalue much by the government. if you would compared them to china, japan and malaysia... it is really a bucket vs a mountain! need to clean up the article and keep the content specify to the tigers and not what was also experience in other asian countries ;) Akinkhoo 14:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

The title of this article was changed from East Asian Tigers to Four Asian Tigers [10]. While it's true they are more commonly known in in Chinese as "亞洲四小龍" (literally Asian four little dragons), in English East Asian Tigers is more common. — Insta ntnood 15:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

how about just call them 'asian tigers'? Akinkhoo 15:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I've been redirected to this article when I've been looking for NIES. Is that another name for the Tigers, if yes, what does it mean etc... I don't find it in this article... Sara =) --123.227.32.128 (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Benefits of the Elite Chinese

I'm sort of confused when it says "Taiwan thus benefited from the flight of many well-educated, bourgeois Chinese. A disproportionately high share of the immigrants were governing elites, merchants, Chinese capitalists, and well-educated professionals." Weren't many Taiwanese elites killed by the KMT? One of my relatives (who was born during the Japanese Era in Taiwan) went to Japan for college. KMT soldiers killed many of the college graduates. My relative was only spared because one of her friends said "我們都是中國人" meaning "we are all Chinese". After the KMT arrived at Taiwan, there was starvation, rebellions, murders, etc. So what did those educated professionals and capitalists actually do? Shuttlecockfc

[edit] Asian Tigers vs East Asian Miracle

I was wondering if East Asian Miracle really should redirect to Asian Tigers. I think the term really means more than just these four economies. Indeed, the book by the World Bank that coined the term actually referred to, as they call them, high performing Asian economies. Actually, I think there should be two articles: One for the Miracle and one for the four Asian tigers.--Asdirk 09:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the East Asian Miracle would have included japan which started the economic explosion in asia, and ending with the 'awakening of china'. Akinkhoo 14:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] India?

Why is India even relevant to this article? This is a page about EAST asian tigers. Last time I checked, India is a south asian country. Plus, the cultural, economical and historical similarities between India and other East asian countries are really minimum. I will delete the India section.

[edit] Cultural explanations and doubts about them

As far as I know, before the Tigers developed there had been theories explaining Asian "backwardness" using confucian culture, thought to hinder development. When the Tigers developed same confucian culture was used to explain how it helped development. So having this without critical voice in the article I've been wondering... Hope that someone here knows better about this than me =) Sara --123.227.32.128 (talk) 12:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Common Characteristics?

Does the GDP ranking really belong in the common characteristics of the introduction? The "12th, 21st, 36th, and 44th, respectively" don't actually seem very similar to me. Anyone have a problem with the removal of this from the list? If it is to stay it could be rephrased so that the sentence is clearer and less awkward. Ectoplasmical (talk) 14:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

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