Talk:Flying disc techniques

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Contents 1 Wording debate 2 Thumber (upside down or rightside up), scoober and waffle 3 Curious About A Throw 4 UK throw names 5 Disc Golf and Ultimate Bias 6 Disc throws 7 New throw: "Wheel of Death" 8 Confusing 9 Discus 10 Backhand version of Waffle 11 Not so useful tip 12 Geller 13 Not encyclopedic 14 Improvement advice 15 Edits

[edit] Wording debate

"Practically speaking, however, if the disc gets from your hand to your friend's hand, you're doing it right."

Is this the kind of wording we want in an encoclopedia? I wasn't sure about it, so I left it in. Any thoughts?

Good question. Answer, I don't know. It seems accurate, but not encyolopedic. I'd welcome alternatives. Wikibofh 01:14, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it is accurate but not necessarily encyclopediac. However, I was having a hard time writing an article on "How to throw a frisbee" in a purely NPOV and literal form :) Bcordes 16:18, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I gave it a shot. If it is met with wild hatred, feel free to revert. Also, I removed the section on the plant foot being "counterintuitive". Even in ball sports, the plant foot is opposite of the throwing arm (ie baseball, football). Wikibofh 17:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Huh, really? When I look at a baseball pitcher, a right-handed thrower plants and pushes off with his right foot. An ultimate player plants his left foot. Football's the same way.Bcordes 19:12, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

I sort of see what you're saying, but I think the pivot foot is the same. So, when you throw a ball right handed, your right leg is what moves forward. The left foot stays the same. I think the difference is "plant" vs "pivot". In ultimate you don't need the momentum caused by a "plant & push" but you still need the pivot, which is the same in all sports. Are we saying the same thing different ways? Wikibofh 19:48, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Heh, sort of, I think. Let's ignore "plant" and "pivot" for a second, and just focus on mechanics. A right-handed baseball pitcher pushes off the rubber with his right foot to gain power, then sort of lands on his left foot during the delivery. Do we agree on that so far?

I agree that an ultimate player doesn't so much "push off" with one foot or the other. A right-handed thrower pivots on the left foot and takes a step with the right during a throw (out to the side usually, rather than towards the target). A baseball pitcher gathers force from his right foot, and takes a step with his left foot during the delivery. It's the stepping foot that differentiates frisbee throws from ball throws, which I think was the original point. I see how "plant" is ambiguous, though. Bcordes 20:37, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, yes, we're saying the same thing. When the release of the ball/disc happens in any sport, the leg that is moving is the same as the arm. (In the normal case...obviously throwing off your back foot can happen and still be effective, but it's not what we're talking about and I'm not even sure why I brought it up unless it was to completely muddle the issue...really....I should stop typing now :) ) I see what you're saying how the opposite leg is moving during the preparation/energy phase. Now that we both know we're saying the same thing, what the hell do we need to do with that sentence to make it clear.  :) Wikibofh 21:02, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I took a shot at it. Feel free to edit boldly. Bcordes 21:24, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Wikibofh 21:32, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I tweaked the wording in the introduction a little more. Bcordes 19:20, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thumber (upside down or rightside up), scoober and waffle

Ok, the thumber as I know it is definitely upside down through it's entire flight path. So unless we have the same name for two different throws, it's upside down. Now, reading the 'waffle' descriptioni it sounds the same to me as the scoober...actually re-reading it it seems to be an upside down throw just like the scoober, but to the forehand side, whereas scoober is to the backhand side. Is that correct? If so, waffle should move to the upside down section. Wikibofh 04:11, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thumber as I know it is definitely a right-side up throw. I thought it was misplaced, but apparently there are two different throws that are called thumbers. Two different sections of thumber will be needed. The thumber I know is released from forehand, like a flick. To get the grip, take the grip of the upside down thumber and rotate the frisbee around the tip of the thumb, so that the rim is between the thumb and forefinger. To throw, you hold it out to the side, pull the thumb back, and flick the wrist forward. Very similar in description, but the grip and frisbee orientation are different.

The waffle is right-side up and thrown from the forehand side. I suppose saying that the frisbee was upside down was confusing, and it would be better to say that the hand was upside down. It's the exact same grip as is used to catch a disk above the head, except that the fingers are spread for stability. Once it has been caught, the thrower usually spreads the fingers apart while bringing their arm back, and throws.

Superflyguy 00:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Ok, I'm still working on wrapping my head around your description of the thumber, I'm going to have to hold a disc while I do that (all mine are in the car  :). As for the waffle, I think I understand, although I've never had a name for it. This is one of your few throwing options on the greatest, where you catch, and then just try to fling the forehand as you gripped it, before you land. Correct? Wikibofh 01:24, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know... I needed a disc to figure out how to describe them. And yes, that is primarily for a greatest, but it's not exactly a forehand flick, if that's what you were thinking of.

Superflyguy 01:52, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Ok, I know what the waffle is. I understand it's thrown forehand, without a forehand grip. I'll try to visualize your thumber tomorrow and then maybe we can clean them up. Wikibofh 03:27, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Ok, now trying to figure out your thumber. I think this is what we sometimes call the beach throw. It is gripped with the thumb under the rim and two fingers on top. It is typically released at shoulder level with a forehand throw. It would be similar to the waffle, only the waffle will have all the fingers on the top of the disk where this would only have 2 or 3 and in more of a forehand grip. Does that sound right? Wikibofh 16:54, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The thumber has the whole thumb touching the inside of the rim, and generally two or three fingers on the outside/top of the rim, with one rim almost resting on the forearm. It sounds like you're thinking of the same throw now, but just to double check, see if that fits the one you're thinking of.

The waffle has the disk extended from the arm. It's most like taking a backhand, holding it on the forehand side, and flipping your grip over.

I really need a digital camera...

Superflyguy 20:47, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Here, let me jump in and see if I can help.

The waffle sounds like a Greatest throw, yeah. It's sort of like the biscuit/backhand push: catch the disc so that it rests against your palm with your fingers on top and your thumb underneath. (Let's say you're right-handed and you caught the disc with your right hand.) Swing your right hand back and to the right, then swing it quickly forward and snap your wrist as you release the disc. It sounds a lot like a backhand push thrown to the forehand side, actually :) You could also throw it behind you, by catching the disc in front of you and swinging your right arm backwards as you release it.

For the thumber, I think of two throws. One is very very similar to a forehand, except the arm is usually tucked in to the body and the spin is imparted off the thumb instead of off the middle finger. The other thumber is, I think, also called a "backhand hammer": the grip has the disc upside-down (135 DRtG), thumb against the inside of the rim and fingers curled in a loose fist. The throw is sort of like a forehand.

Does that help? :) Bcordes 02:19, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

• Are these the grips we're talking about? Wikibofh 04:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Waffle top

Waffle bottom

beach top (or thumber)

beach bottom (or thumber)

Yeah, those are the ones. Superflyguy 14:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Ok, I added the images to the article. I made this version of the thumber the "Beach or Thumber". This is primarily because calling throws with two different grips, one upside down and one rightside up, seemed to me to be confusing.  :) I did link this one to the other thumber for those who might be confused. I'll also back link the upside down thumber here in a second. If I've done anything egregious, feel free to fix it. Wikibofh 14:53, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A few minor changes, but nothing big. Superflyguy 02:22, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I made some wording changes here and there, but it mostly looks good. Bcordes June 29, 2005 19:01 (UTC)

[edit] Curious About A Throw

Very much based on the typical backhand throw, I was curious about another throw that a friend taught me at a camp, and I've been using since. It has the same hand grip (control), but is thrown low on the right side on the body with the hand crossing in front of the body somewhat as it is thrown. There's two main effects that I've noticed depending on the angle of the frisbee at your release point. Either you release it flatly, and it ends up being a fairly quick, very straight pass that tends to stay low easily, or you release it at a reasonable angle, and release it into the air. This way, it tends to have a very high trajectory, and tends to hook significantly to the left as it drops in quickly. It's actually a throw that requires a lot of aim, or it will overshoot or undershoot a target significantly in a diagonal pattern.

It's a personal favorite though, because I seem to be able to get it off quickly without much opportunity for a block.

But, I didn't really seem to see the grip associated with a pass that has the same technique or effect.

• I think I know what you're talking about. It's a backhand throw, released from right by your body. The problem with it is that if you have a marker on you, you can't throw it through their body. It also doesn't give you the reach to the side that the forehand does. It is often used when people haven't gotten their forehand down yet. Wikibofh 16:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] UK throw names

Added a couple of "also known as _____ in the UK", since I've mostly only ever heard Americans use "forehand" and "blade" and I've never heard "waffle" before.

[edit] Disc Golf and Ultimate Bias

I am new to disc golf and have been trying to figure out the right technique to use. A lot of the disc golf sites have "technical" Jargon like "hyzer" "anhyzer" "fade" and "turnover". It seems though that a lot of this article's focus is on Ultimate (bias perhaps, don't know). I am a fan of ultimate too, so nothing against that but don't know if anyone of any expertise could try to balance it out with some disc golf stuff, because you guys have been doing and have done a great job on this, just thinking that instead of only really focusing on Ultimate Strategy/Technique/Usage/etc. that maybe someone could add some things for Disc Golf to this article. The disc golf Article doesn't do much in that regard. I however, know I am not the person to do this (as I said I just really started). Don't know if any of you guys have any Disc Golf buddies who might be able to help you out or something... (things to be added would be like S drives or whatever their called, which is the perfered technique for driving given a frisbee's tendancy to move from right to left and then continue on the same path. I only found out about something like that after about 5 days of searching for different techniques of throwing)

Just bringing it up Qballony 07:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• This isn't an article about Ultimate frisbee throws, so sure, I agree that golf throws should be included. The only problem is I don't play disc golf, so can't help. :) Those of us who have contributed seem to be Ultimate players, hence the bias. Wikibofh_(talk) 14:24, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• I understand, just was hoping that maybe some of your ultimate friends would know anything about it. I'll contribute once I get a better idea of what to do and have more experience.

Qballony 03:51, 13 January 2006 (UTC) PS How do you do the response thing?

• Which response thing? Wikibofh_(talk) 14:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

• Added a frisbee golf hint site, and the response thing is how you use 2 astricks and come out with response indented and 1 dot, but when I did that for yours it came out with 2 dots next to each other instead. I tried 3 astricks this time; hope it works, I'll see I guess. Qballony 03:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

• I'm so new to wikipedia. But here is a couple of great references, especially for Disc golf, http://www.motodom.com/discgolftip.html ,in fact if you type in disc golf throws into any search engine, it is the number one site on the list of responses. Also, the instructional DVD Heave H.O.E., at Motodom.com has become an acclaimed "best way," to show new FRISBEE players how to throw Frisbee discs straight and far ..including the do's AND don'ts. There is some other item worth mentioning about frisbee golf verses disc golf. Frisbee golf is a viable way to play disc golf. One using a frisbee disc, it is frisbee golfing. One who uses a golf disc.. is disc golfing. The two games are different because of what one can do with the different discs. We always suggest teaching frisbee golf to younger age groups.. and disc golf as a form for older ages. But Frisbee golf can be played nearly anywhere.. and disc golf is limited to a disc golf course because of the longer distances involved. Hope this comes through. Motodom_com 03:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• Clearly, by “frisbee disc” you mean a disc used for ultimate (175g, etc.) rather than a golf disc (thin, hurt to catch, etc. :P ), right? That is, rather than the Frisbee brand, specifically (or am I wrong)? Anyhow, if you know the names of some common disc golf throws, why don't you add them to the article? If you're hesitant, you could discuss them on the talk page first (in a new catagory). Vijay 18:35, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• Yes Vijay, I do mean the Frisbee brand. Although any Ultimate disc could basically be used for the game best called Frisbee golf (Folf), rather than DISC golf. May I suggest though, as a great external reference page for the Frisbee throwing article, to please see the info about the throwing instructions DVD Heave HOE at http://www.motodom.com ? I would add it to external links, however I think that must be QBalloney's area of expertise? As for the additional throws, there are a couple of throws which don't pertain to Ulti.. and still would be very good Frisbee throws to explain, like the Roller and Skips (or maybe I just haven't spotted them in the current article yet). Perhaps I can help post some to those regards. As for the DISC golf throws in this article, this current article covers a lot which can easily pertain to DISC golf, and yet I think wikipedia should open a new article for DISC golf.. rather than try to bunch it in with the excellent Frisbee (for Ultimate, Folf, and simply good Throw and Catch) article that is going on here. -I did invent a totally new, iron clad putting method for Disc Golf though, which is based on Frisbee throws. I've called it the Bi-Moto, please see a video clip of it at http://www.motodom.com/BiMoto_tips.html - Motodom_com 6:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disc throws

This article should be moved to Disc throws, as Frisbee is a copyright and only refers to a certain type of disc. --Liface 22:47, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

• I agree, although I shoud add that I think frisbee throws should redirect to disc throws. I'm kind've new here. Is there an official way to go about this? Or does one simply create a new article, copy the contents here to there, and then remove (or change) this article? Vijay 03:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• • That may raise confusion. Hard drives crash often, resulting in great frustration and chagrin. Of course, we all know that hard drives are disks. Disc is relegated to optical media. :->
  • Seriously, see WP:MM for information on moving a page. In brief, use the move tab, follow naming conventions, and never use copy and paste, as it results in loss of edit history. Edit history is so that all authors can be credited per the GFDL. As it may not be a clear-cut case, you might want to check requested moves for the process for proposing a rename. I hope this helps. Good luck! --Christopherlin 15:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New throw: "Wheel of Death"

I just added a section on the throw "Wheel of Death." Now, I don't think this page should become a really long list of everyone's name for every variation of a throw, but I thought that the Wheel of Death should get a mention since it's natural to attempt it. Well, that is, since the hammer is (sort of) a forehand thrown overhead, it's natural to attempt an overhead version of a backhand (not that it's a natural throw!). On the other hand, the throw is so lousy, I'm not sure how many people really "know" it, or know a name for it. Has anyone else heard this name for it? Does anyone know what I'm talking about? : ) If this name isn't widely recognized or accepted, it should probably be tossed out, mentioned as a novelty with many names, or treated in some other way. Any thoughts or suggestions? Vijay 04:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Somone (IP: 64.12.116.73) just changed the throw I added, "Wheel of Death," to "The Corkscrew." I don't dobut that someone uses that name for the throw, and I don't object to its inclusion in the article. However, it would be nice if there were some discussion on this page before it was changed. So, I'm going to change it back, but include the term "corkscrew" into the paragraph describing the throw. I guess we'll work from there. —Vijay 21:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

This sounds vaguely like a throw I "invented" back in 1969. I was trying to find a better way to throw it upside-down, and thought that a baseball pitch motion might work. What I discovered was that pulling the elbow in, while snapping the disc off the shoulder created a very high speed / high spin throw. The key to making it work was getting the track to stay relatively low (4'-7'). Too high and it would overturn, and dive, too low, and it would skim off the ground.

I began publicly teaching others how to throw it starting in 1971. It gained more widespread notoriety beginning in 1975 when I was a member of the UCONN Ultimate Frisbee team, and was able to use it effectively during the initial throws to the opposing team after a score. It was very fast, and nearly impossible to catch. Once most of our opponents saw my throw they would just run out of the way, rather than try to catch it. This gave us time to get down the field and set up our defense, before they could really get moving. Those years gave the throw a lot of exposure, and I taught many outstanding players from all over the northeast how to execute it properly. MajorMagee 22:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

Beach Throw

The Beach Throw (also known as a Peach) is unpopular in ultimate circles due to its unpredictable flight path and proximity of release to the thrower's body. Its primary advantage is that it can be a very hard, very accurate throw, and therefore useful for those uncomfortable with the staple throws of the game, the forehand and backhand. Beach Grip, Top View Enlarge Beach Grip, Top View

Beach Grip, Bottom View Enlarge Beach Grip, Bottom View

   * Grip: The thumber derives its name from the grip: it is thrown on the forehand side with the thumb under the rim and the rest of the hand against the outside of the disc. The arm should also be tucked against the side, and the elbow bent. Keeping the disc parallel to the ground, (any tilt and it will fall) cock your wrist back so your thumb is pointing as far back as you can.

   * Throw: To release, simply flick your wrist forward. Spin is imparted off the flat part of the thumb; power can be gained by rotating the body at the hips. A flat release is critical to a successful thumber. After release, the flat part of the thumb should point towards the target.

1. Is it the beach throw or the thumber?
2. is its flight path unpredicatable or very accurate?

71.250.23.130 19:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Duck vs Biscuit

The descriptions for these two throws are very similiar and more needs to be added to help distinguish them. Sweeces 03:47, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discus

What about a discus type throw? and what about behind the back throws? 71.250.23.130 19:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Backhand version of Waffle

Same grip as waffle, except thumb is closer to rim. Arm can be extended and whole arm swinging at shoulder, or arm can bent at elbow, with only forearm moving. Wrist snap crucial to give it spin. I've used this in a few greatests (sometimes throwing to the side or even behind) and practice it when tossing the disc (usually throwing directly hand). Can also be used for when a quick next throw is needed, but the disc is caught with the fingers on top the disc (as when the disc is caught shoulder height or above, or when laying out). Can be thrown during lay-out if needed. I remember hearing somebody call this by a name, I think different from greatest throw or waffle, but I've forgotten the name. In fact, I once thought I saw this throw on this article, but now I don't (but maybe I'm blind). I sometimes call it the karate chop, because it has a striking motion the edge of one's end. I don't think this is biscuit, because it is not push, but rather a swinging motion. Does anybody else know of this throw? DRLB 15:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep. I think it's quite common too, so I'll add it. A few of us call it "the duck", so I'll start it with that name, but I'm sure someone will change it. 220.239.234.195 00:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not so useful tip

Under useful tips, it is suggested that a flick should be thrown like a tennis forehand. Being a high school tennis player-turned college ultimate player, I would contend that this is horrible advice. A forehand shot in tennis involves a huge amount of arm motion and an over-the-shoulder follow-through. Anyone who might be looking for useful tips on throwing a forehand would probably be worse-off for having read this advice.--Btwied 4 August 2006

• Is that also true if you don't hit a topspin forehand?  :) Wikibofh_(talk) 21:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

You mean, like a 4-year-old would play tennis? That's probably not fair to say, but having played some tennis as well, I think low-back to high-over-shoulder when I hear forehand. Calling a spinless forehand a forehand feels odd from being just that atypical. It'd be nice to specify "with no spin," at least parenthetically.

No, I mean like my grandfather who has been playing for the last 70 years. Let's just change it to forehand and then we can argue about raquetball too. Wikibofh_(talk) 00:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geller

The description for this throw basically says to hold the disc in your mouth and then throw by twisting the heck out of your kneck. This doesn't seem to be a valid throw, or at least should go into it own section (i.e. Right-Side up, Upside-down and Trick/Misc/Whatever the title should be) Sweeces 14:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not encyclopedic

This page contains much useful information, but is far too instructional (especially with the extensive 2nd person voice). Throws should be described and defined, but not evaluated for suitability (because that is highly POV). Readers should not also be instructed on carrying out throws, that should be in Wikibooks. Note how driving does not include tutorials on learning how to drive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.32.15 (talk)

I agree with the sentament of the above post, but I'll also bring up another big issue: citations. There are some sites that we could consider authoritative on the subject, such as freestyledisc.org, but it might be hard to get many of the throws on here documented. Maybe a school team, club, or league out there has a newsletter online? Unlikely. Anyhow. I do not think the article should be deleted, but I agree it needs a big rewrite. — gogobera (talk) 23:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I added a request to import this article into Wikibooks. It seems more appropriate there. Dudecon (talk) 22:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Imported. How-tos can get removed with impunity. – Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 16:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree - the instructional elements should be moved to a wikibook project or Ultipedia. Ivasara (talk) 22:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement advice

See Cue sports techniques for how to write an article of this sort, and get rid of all the dire warning tags on this page. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 13:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

I just made some edits and removed a lot of content. I agree strongly with the above comments, the article is a mess and reads like a manual full of opinions. I tried to trim it down so readers could get a more basic idea. It could still use tons of work. Citation is def a concern, not sure how to tackle that. Beach drifter (talk) 03:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)