Talk:First and Last and Always

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[edit] Genre identification in infobox

(Cut-and-pasting my comment at User talk:Asn) Hi. I noticed you went through all of my infobox updates at The Sisters of Mercy's album articles and changed the genre from Gothic rock to Alternative rock with an edit summary saying that you were fixng a mistake. While I am sure that you have some reasoning behind the change, I'd like to point out that it was very unlikely to be a "mistake in updating" on my part, since I had to manually type in the change. I'd also point out that the article on Alternative mentions Gothic rock as a subgenre, without providing any additional information on The Sisters of Mercy, whereas the article on Gothic rock mentions The Sisters of Mercy something like seven times. I'd like to invite you to reconsider the change. Jkelly 23:26, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

(Cut-and-pasting User:Asn's response from my talk page)Hello.

With all due respect, I'd like to point out that the original change was made by you, one-sidedly, not by me. I merely returned the status-quo, and believe that you'd have to provide the arguments for changing it.

With that said, in my opinion, labelling the output of the band as "gothic" is a contraversial move, as band themselves and considerate group of their fans don't consider it gothic - as noted in both The Sisters of Mercy and Gothic rock. Both sides probably have solid arguments, and the best we can do is try and remain neutral - which is exactly what the Alternative rock tag does. - ASN 09:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to first mention that it didn't occur to me that it would be a "controversial" edit, but this isn't the first time I've been surprised by what is controversial, and I am sure it won't be the last. Sorry if I seemed abrupt. With that said, I'd like to discuss the matter a bit more. We've both noted that the genre identification is discussed at both The Sisters of Mercy and at Gothic rock, the latter of which I want to point readers to. I'd suggest that this is a reasonable amount of coverage of the issue. Beyond that, I'd point out that in the album descriptions, we note in several places that our secondary sources describe them as producing Gothic music (see here "Gothic album" - Q magazine, here "Gothic rockers" - Alternative Press, "draconian Goth zombie" - Rolling Stone mag, Robert Christgau notes that there is "dumber Gothic", etc.). I hold that we are doing a better service to the reader of the article by directing the link to Gothic rock, where The Sisters of Mercy are extensively discussed amongst their contemporaries and peers, than by directing them to Alternative rock, where they are not (and probably shouldn't be) mentioned. If you think that Andrew Eldritch's objection to the label deserves mention in every album article as well as in The Sisters of Mercy article and in Gothic rock, I'd suggest that as a reasonable compromise. Perhaps we can include it as a footnote to the genre listing. What do you think? Jkelly 02:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)