Talk:Fargo (film)

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edited page to bring topics together and header them--Natcase 14:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Discrepancy 2 Why the need for money? 3 True story? 4 From a Minnesotan 5 Trivia edits 6 DVD release? 7 Locations confirmation 8 Pretty Pictures! 9 Problems with a picture! 10 Ransom money 11 Intro and the AFI 12 Merger with Marge Gunderson 13 Inaccuracy with the plot 14 Pop culture 15 BAFTA Awards 16 Dutch?

[edit] Discrepancy

One discrepancy: Shep Proudfoot, the go-between, had specifically told Lundegaard he couldn't vouch for Showalter because he had never met Showalter and didn't know him at all. Yet Proudfoot was quickly able to track Showalter down to deliver a beating?

I had the impression that he was staying at Shep's apartment, which makes probably makes no sense. It is possible that the two of them met off-screen during that day Showalter looking Shep up to find out the best way to get laid. It seems like Shep should have been getting some sort of referal fee. In that case, Shep would have been hospitable.

BTW are we supposed to add at the top or the bottom ? Peter Reilly 17:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It's simple. Shep lied. Cratylus3 12:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I could definitely see it that way, that Shep lied...--71.183.84.51 22:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It would seem confirmed by Carl immediately recognizing Shep when he pulls the hooker off him.--Dhartung | Talk 08:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why the need for money?

Does anyone know why William H. Macy really needed the 750,000 dollars???

Wasn't it to fund the parking lot he wanted to build or do something with? He had tried to call the kidnappers off when his father-in-law was going to go in on the deal with him, but couldn't because he didn't have their number.Pnkrockr 16:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Probably because of past shady dealings -- remember the phone conversation near the beginning about fudging the vehicle registration numbers on a form? AnonMoos 00:45, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

It's kind of a mystery, I think, and they never directly explain it. There's something to do with a parking lot, and some other botched business deals. All we know is that he wants the money for a pretty stupid reason, and he ends up (by extention) killing his wife, father-in-law, and many other innocent people. Caesar 06:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Macy's character has inflated the number of vehicles on the lot he runs for his father-in-law to obtain cash for another business deal(parking lot) or multiple deals. It is strongly suggested that he has somehow already squandered a significant sum of cash, so he needs money both to finance the business deal(s) and to pay off the funds borrowed against the bogus vehicles. He has basically embezzled money from the dealership. Rather than admit what has happened to his father-in-law (probably ruining his marriage, career and putting him in jeopardy of prosecution), he hits on the kidnapping scheme to obtain the cash needed to bail himself out of the jam he created. I think there's obviously a strong element of his father-in-law's stern and authoritarian character having "pushed" him to the breaking point; had he been able to admit the initial losses to the father-in-law without fear of financial ruin and a broken family, there would have been no need to engage to embezzle from the dealership to raise cash, etc. It is fairly clear to me that William Macy had embezzled from the dealership. The persistent calls from Riley at GMAC indicates that floor planning loans had been made against non-existent cars. I think it is called being "out of trust". How he was going to replace the embezzled money and still buy the parking lot is interesting. It could be that he would finance the parking lot. Then he will have to worry whether there is a title search done and how to service the debt to both his father-in-law and where ever he got the parking lot financing from. Now that I think about it there is an early comment by "the funny looking guy" that the kidnapping was like "robbing peter to pay paul" or something like that. When he "flees the interview" he has just been asked "how do you know?" about whether a car is on the lot Peter Reilly 01:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Considering his personality and behavior, it's not even clear that the "good deal" he presents to Grossman and Gustafson actually exists. We know GMAC is after him, but we don't know what he did with their money. Sure, he needs to pay them back, and that's the direct debt he tries to address, but where did that money go? It doesn't really matter, and it's kind of a Macguffin. Like the contents of the case in Pulp Fiction, it explains motivation without having to be explicit in nature. Jerry's debts and his reaction to them shows us the key traits in his character (and his motivation) that cause the rest of the movies dominoes to fall. Cratylus3 12:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's not really relevant to the article, but my interpretation has always been that the parking lot deal was a legitimate way to earn money to pay off the debts he amassed through (probably) illegal action. But, like you said, it's really just another gold briefcase. --JD79 15:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I personally thought the parking lot deal was a way to raise more money. ie he wasn't in debt, but wanted money to do the deal, so he could then make more. And the shady information on the form is just a reference to general dodgy-dealings that a car salesman would do. And re fleeing the interview, that would be because of the murders surely? TimothyJacobson (talk) 16:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] True story?

If this is based on a true story then was there really a million dollars left out there or was it found eventually?

Fargo is not based on a true story. The true story thing was a prank on their part. - A Link to the Past

I thought I recalled hearing about a story in the news in the late 1990's regarding the true "Jerry Lundegaard" and his comments from prison. Are you sure that this true story-thing was a prank? Any citation regarding that?Drdr1989 03:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The story is fictional. The Cohens played a similar prank with O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000), which they said in the opening was based on The Odyssey but later admitted that had never read (documented in Ies at the time theMDB but also other articl film came out, the film only includes elements that most literate people would've already heard of: cyclops, harpies, oracle). This became an added bit of humor when the film was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. According the the Cohens, the openning title card in question was originally going to say "Based on Homer's The Odyssey, with other based on Moby Dick". Bobak 19:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, its a completely made up story. There was a rumor that a Chinese woman froze to death searching for the money Steve Buschemi buries on the side of the highway. I know that there was a real woman who died, but it was disputed whether she was looking for the money or not. There's an article at www.snopes.com about it. Caesar 06:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The lady that died was from Japan, it is now mentioned in the article. As for true story claims, in the special features on the DVD is a making of documentry titled "Minnesota Nice" that confirms clearly and to the point that the story is a work of fiction that is not based on a real life chain of events. They go on to state that all the events that occured in the movie were individually based off of stories that they have heard of happening, the wood chipper for example that had heard of someone being murdered in that fashion, when pressed on the subject of aunthentisity they researched it and found dozens of cases of bodies being disposed of in this manner. It is also stated that due to the warm weather they needed to make snow/truck it in. The Trivia section stating "Not a single scene of the movie was shot in or near Fargo, North Dakota." might not be entirely true, as in the documentry they explain that for the scene where the money is buried with the open snow covered field they needed to travel "almost up to Fargo"205.250.222.152 08:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Some of the above (esp the O Brother Where Art Thou similarity) could be mentioned in the main article maybe. Ditto the following, if anyone can find a reliable source for it. William H Macy said in a TV interview (I think something like "100 Greatest Films Ever", or a similar Channel Four list show) that he when he first accepted the part, he read on the front of the script that there would be a title card stating that the film is based on a real event. Apparently he asked the Coen Brothers for more details on the events, or where he could research it and was told that, as the film was mainly fiction, and the card was in the film, the information on it could be fiction also.TimothyJacobson (talk) 16:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From a Minnesotan

We do not talk like that. MortimerJones

Oh, yah?

You mean "Oh ja?" Drdr1989 03:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

From a transplanted LA person in MN: the echoes of the over-stated accents in the movie are present in people from the Northern/rural parts of the state. If you want to test a Minnesotan for their accent, have them say "Oh my God! Margie, park the car, there's a moose on the loose!" (guaranteed to dig out even the most latent accent) Bobak 19:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

In the Iron Range, from Grand Rapids up to Ely, the accents go beyond those in the movie. How Bob Dylan lost (hides?) his is a cultural curiosity. Most of Wisconsin (except for maybe Madison) has a similar accent, and the Michigan UP is famous for it. I place the accent along the lines of a general "western Great Lakes" accent, with regional variants including the Chicago ("da' Bears"), Toronto ("hosers"), and other more rural versions. Plenty of people in the Twin Cities have this accent, I assure you. Jerry picker 14:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Bob Dylan's voice is too bad to have a detectable accent, besides, he's from Hibbing. Accents aren't too bad there

Being from Minnesota, I don't think we talk like that, but then I say Minnesota and realize that it's kinda true.

I think it was more of a running joke about Canadians and people in the northern United States.. I live in souther Manitoba, and it's amazing how many people believe that we actually talk with that much of an accent. Tblore 22:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd assumed it to be done as a joke, rather than for realism. I'd also assumed Canadian rather than Minnesotian TimothyJacobson (talk) 16:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

being someone who recently moved to minnesota, most of you don't, but lots of you do, talk like that. i'm assuming it's worse outside of the cities, which is where i'm at.Caesar 06:15, 29 July 2006 (UTC)Caesar

Im from MN, & I don't really notice, but does anyone know were they filmed the "I'm goin' crazy out 'ere on the lake"

Living most of my life in Fargo, ND I can acurately state that "Yah, you betcha" and "Dontcha know" is only used as a self depreciating remark when talking with people from out of state, but honestly the only a slightly elongated vowel sound will give us away (normally the "O"s). Up around Lake of the Woods...that's a different story

I added a section on how the Minnesota culture and accent depiction was received. I know a lot of Minnesotans don't think they talk like that, but it was clearly deliberately exaggerated. --Dhartung | Talk 08:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

"I know a lot of Minnesotans don't think they talk like that." They know they don't. Josh (talk)

[edit] Trivia edits

Removed the line in Trivia: "The only truth in the story is the fact that there actually is a Fargo, North Dakota" because it is just silly. By this criteria there are several other "truths" in the movie: there actually is a Brainerd, MN and Twin Cities and Bismarck, ND. Cars actually do travel on the right side of the road. Guns do really hurt people. Blood actually is red. There really are prostitutes in Minnesota, etc. It makes no sense.

I'm removing the Monsters, Inc. reference, because there actually is a machine in the movie called the shredder, which makes it unclear if that is a reference or not. Benandorsqueaks 23:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DVD release?

"The film was released on DVD on September 30, 2003." ... I'm pretty sure I first bought the DVD in 2000... Smoove K 02:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Fixed the first DVD release date. I remember buying it shortly after it was released myself. Chikinsawsage 07:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Locations confirmation

A marker in the article questions accuracy of locations information. I know the King of Clubs info is correct (at least for the establishing shot, not sure about the interior). And it has been razed (it's now hospice housing I think). It was on Central Avenue NE just south of Spring St. IMDB has a few other locations. Notably: Edina police station for Brainerd Police interiors, and the Minneapolis Club ramp for the airport ramp.

Anyone know of a vetted list of locations we can source from? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Natcase (talk

contribs) 03:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC). Oops. Sorry.--Natcase 03:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pretty Pictures!

I've added a ton of screenshots, but is it OK to have that many? Should I remove maybe the shootout one? I actually had a few more, such as one showing the state trooper being shot, and one showing Jean... D Marcescu 22:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

My opinion is that there are too many pictures, and I don't like how they create stackup problems within the article. I propose removing most of these pictures, or at least placing them in a gallery.

• Image:Fargo.jpg - needs fair use rationale!
• Image:Fargo Body.jpg - needs fair use rationale! I recommend removing this altogether.
• Image:Fargo Parklot.jpg - needs fair use rationale! I recommend removing this altogether.
• Image:Fargo WoodPulp.jpg - I'd keep this one.
• Image:Fargo Salesman.jpg - needs fair use rationale! Keep.
• Image:Fargo Buscemi.jpg - fair use is being disputed, possibly remove.
• Image:Fargo Gael.jpg - possibly remove.
• Image:Fargo Marge.jpg - keep.

Hoof Hearted 15:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Too many stills from a movie violates WP:FAIRUSE#Images. --Dhartung | Talk 08:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with a picture!

The picture of William H. Macy floats over the text. I cannot find out how to get it lower? Maybe it is only my browser, Firefox.

Tried to fix the snapshot layouts. It's still not that great but the text shouldn't be obscured by the pics any longer. Anyone else care to pretty up the pic layout? Chikinsawsage 01:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ransom money

The ransom was initially going to be $80,000, so I would leave out the $1,000,000 that are mentioned in the introduction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.206.196.77 (talk) 08:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

The Macy charachter told the two characters that the ransom was $80,000. I think it is clear that he always intended to tell his father-in-law that it was one million. Peter Reilly

[edit] Intro and the AFI

The intro mentions three AFI 100 years... lists. It seems a bit over the top, expecially given that no other examples of plaudits are given which would seem to imply that the AFI is the only authority on the worthiness of a movie. I would suggest mentioning other praise or reducing the mention to just the AFI 100 movies list. Unusual Cheese 13:44, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with Marge Gunderson

This section is for discussing the merger of the Marge Gunderson article into this article:

• Support - The article on Margie is written in an unencyclopedic tone and is duplicative of material contained in this article. Additionally, very few articles link to it. — WiseKwai 17:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

• Concern - would the image on that article pass fair use if moved to Fargo? Somehow doubt it. -- Guroadrunner 06:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't know of a reason why it wouldn't. It could fit in the plot section or cast section. Also, there isn't a preponderance of images in the Fargo article. I'm confident a fair-use rationale could be crafted to ensure the image of Marge would be okay. — WiseKwai 10:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

• Merge. I think that separate character articles are only relevant for series like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, cases where there is a deep pool of knowledge to draw on. Furthermore, it looks like this is the only article for a character from Fargo. While Marge Gunderson is an outstandingly-written character, perhaps it would be better to just have a subsection within the main Fargo article (which may be warranted since the character was ranked on AFI's "100 Best Heroes & Villians" roster). --JD79 15:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC) (Cross-posted from the Marge Gunderson Talk page.)

[edit] Inaccuracy with the plot

Grimsrud first kills Carl with a shovel... not an axe. I made the change. - tbone0204

No, it's definitely an axe. Most of the shot it's seen blade-on so it's hard to tell, but there's a clear shot just before Grimsrud raises it when you see the side of the axe head. --Dhartung | Talk 08:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pop culture

I removed the entire pop culture section today. Without getting into a debate about pop culture/trivia sections in general, I feel it is safe to say that these references were without value. Oppie and Anthony occasionally saying "dontcha know" is utterly trivial as is someone mentioning Steve Buschemi in one line of a song. I intended on just trimming the list down, but could find none that were actually significant. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 20:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the removal. If the article on the Odyssey mentioned it inspired a novel by James Joyce I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. The movie is part of pop culture so within the context references are not trivial. It's possible the whole thing is trivial in the grand scheme of things, but that is a separate issue. I hope more people will weigh in on this. Peter Reilly (talk) 19:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between a trivial cultural reference and a significant one. We as editors have to use discretion to sort them out. Peter if you think some of the refs I deleted were significant by all means lets discuss, I have no issues with compromise, but like I say one line mentions and and occasional impressions are not in the same league as inspiring an entire novel. The reason there was such a backlash against trivia sections was that many were just like this one, useless little bits. There is absolutely no reason to list every time someone mentions Fargo, it would be like listing all the time someone used a number 2 pencil on TV on the Pencil page. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 19:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Of course we're both going over the top with our comparisons. I think the woodchipper ones should be considered. I think the woodchipper will be one of those things with a long life kind of like the Bates Motel. Peter Reilly (talk) 21:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BAFTA Awards

"The film also won the British BAFTA Award"

Which one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.117.239 (talk) 22:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch?

It says in the article that the silent killer Grimsgud is Dutch. Any source for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.143.205 (talk) 02:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)