Talk:Fabrizio De André

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[edit] de/De André

Moved from my talk page. Feel free to add your opinion. --Gika 20:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Why did you move Fabrizio De André to Fabrizio de André last year? See the history. All evidence suggests De should be written with upper case D, for example this tribute website. If there is good reason to change this to lower case, shouldn't the Italian Wikipedia be changed as well? --LA2 10:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

In Italian, "de" (which is an abbreviation for "dei", which means "of", a preposition) is part of many surnames. As my high school teacher taught me, in Italian, when a preposition is part of a name, it should be lowercase if there are name and surname ("Fabrizio de André"), and with the first letter capitalized if we only write the surname ("De André"). Nowadays some always capitalize "De", and many don't even know it's a spelling mistake (like many other small things which aren't counted as mistakes in tests, like "perchè" instead of "perché"), but I feel like we should keep the ortographical-correct version, as it's also the one used by the artist in his signature).

For the Italian Wikipedia: I don't know, I never use it... I'll open up a discussion in "Fabrizio De André"'s talk page, maybe. --Gika 11:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Some names are written with upper case De, such as the family De Geer, originating from Belgium, or the interesting case Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie with upper-case De and lower-case la. The only rule should be to respect every person's own way to write their name. Some people are Anderson, others are Andersson with double s, some are Anderzon with a Z. There are no general rules about how to write names, only individual spellings. I can easily find evidence for writing Fabrizio...André with upper case De. His own signature is one interesting counter-example. Are there any other examples (e.g. record envelopes or printed encyclopedias) that spell his name with lower case "de"? And does this mean the sort-name in categories should be changed from "De André, Fabrizio" to "André, Fabrizio de"? --LA2 13:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The records themselves have some incoherences. On this there's a "Fabrizio de André" (small, under the tracklist), but there's also a "La Buona Novella" instead of "La buona novella" (correct Italian capitalization for titles). On this one there's a "Fabrizio De André". In the one I posted before, with the signature, there's a "Fabrizio de André". In another one there's even a "Fabrizio DE ANDRE'", while another reads "Fabrizio De Andrè", but with the grave accent! Most of them seem to read "Fabrizio De André", anyway, so I wouldn't disagree with changing back the name. Also, since the "de" is part of the surname anyway, the sort-name should still be "De André, Fabrizio". --Gika 16:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Your investigation is a great documentation. Could you add a paragraph about this to the main article? --LA2 21:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Done, and moved the page back to "Fabrizio De André". --Gika 16:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm Italian, I've done some research on the argument, and maybe I can help you. If DE is a part of the surname, the right one is the upper case. If DE is a preposition (for ex., a nobiliar preposition, as DE in its origins), the lower case is the correct one. In Italy nobiliar titles were abolished during the creation of the Republic. Following the RICA (Regole Italiane di Catalogazione per Autore) guidelines, used in the libraries, all the Italian nobiliar prepositions that were used before the XIX century (when they were still legal) should be written with the lower case, and all modern names should be written with the upper case. The name of a ipotetic Lorenzo de Medici's descendant should be XXX De Medici. Not every ancient surname have to be written with the lower case, because also in antiquity some prepositions were part of the surname (for ex., "Degli Esposti", that means "of the people who were exposed", abandoned children). Sorry for the eventual grammar mistakes ;)

[edit] de andrè

As far as I know, his name is de Andrè, not de André.

No, his name is "Fabrizio De André", not "Fabrizio De andrè" o "de Andrè".

scussi for my butting in but according to this web page, he was born at the age of 67 and he died at the age of 8

Doesn't anybody notice something odd about that?!