Talk:Etymological list of counties of Romania

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Contents 1 Caraş 2 Sibiu 3 Vâlcea 4 Satu Mare 5 Vrancea 6 Năsăud 7 Hungarian or Slavic etymology? Nothing Romanian? 8 Other Names 9 Bihor

[edit] Caraş

Couldn't Caraş be from the Turkish word for dark? The river Karašica a bit more west is named like that... --Joy [shallot] 10:27, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think you're right. AFAIK, Caraş county was part of a Turkish province. In Moldavia and Wallachia there are no Ottoman Turkish names because Turks/Muslims were not allowed to settle. Bogdan | Talk 10:59, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sibiu

As far as I know, Sibiu comes form the name of the rivers which flows through it - Cibin, which is named after a fortress (probably of roman origin) - Cibinium (Cibiniensis) See:[1]. The name was kept because the germans kept the name of the river - Zibin. -Orioane 13:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

That name is in Medieval Latin, i.e. it was a Latinization of a local non-Latin name. There is no mentioning of a "Cibinensis" or "Cibinium" river or fortress in ancient times. bogdan | ^Talk 13:41, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vâlcea

In Romanian, the word means "little valley", out of vale;

That is unlikely because of the accent (Vầlcea) is different from (Vâlceà). bogdan 11:57, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Satu Mare

According to Aetil, the only origin of "Satu Mare" is the "Szatmár", Hungarian name of the city. Does anyone know what is the etymology of "Szatmár"? Mentatus 10:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

1. Is Satu Mare truely Romanian for "Big Village"?
2. http://dict.sztaki.hu/english-hungarian (which I used for Szűcsvár) doesn't give anything for "szar" or "mát". We'd need more details, but this alone tilts me toward thehypotehsis that the Hunagarian comes from the Romanian.
3. Has someone asked Aetil for a citation?

Circeus 14:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sat means "village" (origin: the Latin word "fossatum") and mare means "big" (possible origin: the Latin words "mas" or "maris"). Maybe Aetil can provide us with the Hungarian etymology of "Szatmár", if there is one. Mentatus 15:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to say "Szatmár" could just as well be the Hungarian form of "Satu Mare". Also, f aetil's talk page and his Talk/User talk namespace contributions are any indication, he does not seem very responsive to such notes. I say we revert and see whether he protests.

And wouldn't L. "maior" make a sensible etymology to "mar"? Circeus 16:13, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The root word is "mare", which, due to phonetic reasons, is unlikely to be derived from "maior". OTOH, the ancient word would have to be *maris to fit the phonetic evolution perfectly. bogdan 17:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Why does the Satu Mare entry in the table say "Romanian/German"? What's German in "Satu Mare"? It's obvious that it means "The Great Village" in Romanian, just as its neighboring city, "Baia Mare" means "The Great Mine". Mirc mirc 18:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vrancea

If valceais "little valley", is it possible that vrancea would be "little raven"? Circeus 14:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• "Vâlcea" is from Vulgar Latin "vallicella" (little valley). Latin diminutive suffix "-icella" is inherited in Romanian as "-(i)cea". (for example, floare "flower", floricea "little flower").
• "Vrana" is from Slavic "врана" (raven or crow in Bulgarian and Serbian). The word is not found in Romanian. (the word for "raven"is "corb")

As such, as I'm not sure. Mixed Slavo-Romanian toponyms are not very likely. I'd suggest an entirely Slavic origin, something like "Vranić" (son-of-the-raven). bogdan 17:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Năsăud

The name Năsăud can hardly derive from the German name Nussdorf. Which linguistic source gives this explanation? What, in general, is the source of this list? Fransvannes 08:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Mostly the Romanian version of the article, which does a few sources that were not ported over. I'd do it, but I do not knoe enough romanian to apply {{cite web}} to them. Circeus 13:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hungarian or Slavic etymology? Nothing Romanian?

Firstly is to keep in mind that Hungarians was not ALL OVER in Dacia! Nor Slaves. Then is hazardous to make guesses about Romanian place names etymology only because "it sounds like".

May be it’s time to consider that Romanians neighbors had loan words from Romanians and not vice versa. When Huns and Slavs came, they found towns and fortresses, so Dacians / Romanians had yet almost one millennium of western civilizations.

Bacău Uncertain, possibly Hungarian Possibly named after a local warlord called Bako, "-ău" is a common Romanian ending for place names of Hungarian origin? Are you sure? Buzău Romanian (Dacian). Possibly from buză ("lip"). Why not Hungarian as soon as ends in –ău? Or vice-versa. What about Ceahlău, is that an Hungarian place name? Others Asău, Bârsău, Castău, Catcău, Cergău, Chşcău, Copalău, Cricău, Dumbău … Vaşcău (68 pcs.!) All Hungarians? Just nothing, nothing Romanian? Are you sure about "local warlord called Bako". Bakó means hangman! Just a cognate! I guess you know what cognate is. Ask also, for the saying "şi-a găsit bacăul".

About cognates: We have in Romania "Veneţia De Jos" and "Veneţia De Sus" and for Venice we say Veneţia (!) but is only a cognate. We have Alexandria but it is not that from Egypt. There are Moscows in the USA and in Canada.

Severin severin is NOT an obsolete Slavic word for "Northern"! Nobody knows such thing. That’s your bug. Sever, yes, means North in Slavic but never "severin". But Turnu–Severin is not in the North if you are not looking from Cairo. Severinus (masc.), Severina (fem.) are old Latin names from Severius, Septimius Sever. As a common name "sever" means in Romanian "hard, severe, harsh, strict, rigid, unrelenting". Consider also "Banatul de Severin", "comitatul Severin".

Yes, "severin" is a word Slavic word for "Northern". In Serbian it's "severni" and in Bulgarian, it's "severen". If it were Latin, it would look like "sărân", not as "severin". (intervowel "v" is always lost (cf. lavare -> a la) , vowels before "n" turn to "â" (romanus -> român), unstressed e turns to ă/a). bogdan 17:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ilfov why Slavic? Because ends in –ov? You mean that Finnish names as Ponteva, Mahtava, French Gustav, Danish Olav are all Russians because the "–v" end? What about Braşov or Snagov? Slavics, eh?

Yes. Both "Braşov" and "Snagov" are also from Slavic. Braşov from "baras", meaning fortress and Snagov from "sneg", meaning snow. bogdan 17:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering whether it would be possible for "Braşov" to originate from "bârsă" (see also "Ţara Bârsei"). Mentatus 09:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Bârsă is an old Romanian word of Dacian origin -- but I can't see how it could combine with Slavic -ov and result that phonetical form.bogdan 09:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Suceava From Szűcsvár (?!?) Oh, NO, that's a big mistake. All Dacians towns' and fortresses' names are ending in –ava! Sic! You have to consider a lot of cognates. To pronounce the place name Suceava [sutchava] they have to write Szucsava that remember the Hungarian word szűcs. That’s all.

Again, all intervowel "v"s were lost in Romanian between 100 AD and now. Also, no, they were ending in "dava", not "-ava". bogdan

Yeah, but in all pre-modern hungarian town names, considering the hungarian pronunciation of those times, var became "or"/"oara". However by Simion Dascalu (or Axinte Uricariu, i'm not sure who made the first claim, but anyway he said the info was taken from a hungarian chronicle) - in the late 17th century, "v" was pronounced v. So, I think "suczvar" is just folk etymology. Anonimu 17:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Suceava is obviously not of Hungarian origin! First of all, NOT all intervocalic "v" were lost! Example: "Sever" <- Latin "severus". It didn't become "săr". People are forgetting there was another city, in southern Dacia, called "Sucidava", which sounds surprisingly close to "Suceava"! Considering the accent of the people from Moldova, it's even closer. Read loudly the two names with a Moldovan accent! There are only two possible origins for Suceava: from Dacian, "suci" + "dava" (dava being a VERY common termination, meaning fortress) or the Romanian verb "a suci" (to turn, to twist). Especially considering there's a river, Suceava, that, "coincidentally", has lots of turns. Even the article about Suceava says it comes from Dacian, as it's the most plausible explanation! Oh and by the way, loss of intervocalic "D" is not an uncommon transformation either, together with loss of intervocalic "B" (ex: Latin "oblitare" -> "obitare" -> "oitare" -> "uitare"; meaning "to forget"). "Sucidava" -> "Suciava" is a perfectly fine transformation, linguistically. While "ia" -> "ea" is a specific Moldovan accent transformation (any Romanian should know this). Mirc mirc 18:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Vâlcea Romanian/Slavic Yes, "vâlcea" means Romanian for "little valley", from vale, "valley" (Latin vallis). That’s all. But you have another bug: Also possibly from vlk ("wolf"), the name of a Dark Age Slavic warlord mentioned in Hungarian chronicles. Oh! No. In Mahabharata! There are not place for a Dark Age in Vâlcea. Well, Farcaş-ruller is known in Oltenia and it happen so that farkas means in Hungarian "wolf". So what!

Ardeal - "wooden hill" - arde expresses an Indo-European root meaning forest, the same as in English Forest of Arden and Belgian Ardennes Woods; Deal means hill in Romanian. Why Arad Hungarian? Why not Hebrew? Means hand. Named after the city of Arad, formerly Urod (11th century) (of course, their pronunciation for Arad!) after the name of a Hungarian knight, probably from the root ur meaning lord. Why not Urvár? Nonsense, history does not mention such a "Hungarian knight". But they have enough time to invent it.

In old Romanian "frânc", "frâncu[l]" means "occidental", "Frankish". "Frâncu" is an usual surname in Romanian. Etymology "francea"-"vrancea" is most probable, under German influence, (Saxonians) initial "v" is pronounced "f". Legend of "Baba Vrâncioaia" could be "Baba Frâncioaia". 88.192.241.146 20:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Names

Sălaj: Some hungarian etymologists claim that the name Zilah (and of course the county Szilágy) comes from the Latin "silva", which means forest.

Maramures: Maybe from "mare-mures" (mára-maros)- meaning great Maros --> for the Tisa river (Tisza).

In addition: Many city and county names in Moldova have in fact hungarian origin, because Moldova was a part of the Hungarian Kingdom in the 14th century --> at this time the first cities in Moldova began to develope, and because the rulers (e.g. Nagy Lajos) were hungarians, they got hungarian names (although the population wasn't mainly hungarian) --> their names lasted until today. Öcsi 21:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bihor

It might be of Sarmatian / Iranian origin. Well attested in indo-iranian languages. Very numerous iranian toponymes are to be found in western Romania, reconoscible after the termination and , specific to Iranian languages (Zarand, Tamand, Zerind, etc). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.113.192.216 (talk) 23:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)