Talk:Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

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Through January 2008

Contents 1 Names 2 Proposed merge from Trenchcoat Mafia 3 picture split 4 Harris having OCD?

[edit] Names

The article consistenly refers to them as Eric and Dylan, but it should really say Harris and Klebold. I'm about to go to sleep so I won't fix it, but someone should. Thanks a lot. Good page, by the way, espeially considering the subject(s) 81.96.160.6 (talk) 03:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

All fixed. Thanks. Wildhartlivie (talk) 05:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge from Trenchcoat Mafia

The "group" has no notability in itself, only for the media coverage of Harris and Klebold, and the article isn't very substantial anyway. Could be smerged and redirected here. Шизомби (talk) 18:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I see nothing to be gained by a merger of the two articles. What is covered in the Trenchcoat Mafia article is covered, in one fashion or another in this article. I would suggest to simply redirect the page to this one and circumvent incorporating redundant material in this article, which is long enough as it is. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd be fine with just a redirect without a merger too. Шизомби (talk) 22:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The 'Trench coat Mafia' is actually an English term for trench coat aficionados. Given that Eric and Dylan wore dusters, you could argue that they were unofficially part of it, being that they liked the coats, but I don't believe that liking something automatically makes you a murderer. I think people are just trying to condemn the fashion while on here.. I'd revert it back to what it was (trench coat aficionados) and keep the two separate. - NemFX (talk) 06:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Whatever the English term, at Columbine High School, it was an unofficial name for a specific group of students who wore trenchcoats or dusters and Klebold and Harris were on the fringe of that group, so it really has nothing to do with how it's used in England. And no one at all has said that liking something makes one a murderer, that's a rather simplistic view of it. Further, no one at all has condemned the fashion, or for that matter, cast aspersions on it. What would make you say that someone is trying to condemn it because an article has been written about how the term was used? It's an artifact of the Columbine shootings. Since the Trenchcoat Mafia article was created specifically to address how it was used at Columbine, there's nothing to revert back to. I am going to go ahead and redirect the page. Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I was reffering to the word 'English' as opposed to 'American' as in the language, not the location. Over here in Canada it has the same meaning as the 'English' one, though the origin did probably originate in Europe. Both England and Australia have similar speech patterns regarding labeling certain trends. - 72.141.197.83 (talk) 15:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] picture split

both their pictures are in the first info box, but all other information is split into two separate info boxes for the individuals. it's the same way in the Bonnie and Clyde article, but that may be because in the B&C article, they are in one picture.

in this article it's two separate pictures. is there a reason for keeping both in one box? 75.45.176.9 (talk) 19:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I don't think there is a good reason. There's a picture of both of their yearbook pictures below Klebold's infobox if anyone needs one picture of both. --zenohockey (talk) 21:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It's that, in both articles, because the actual image which is like this everywhere that uses this image, is one image and there is no crime infobox available that I know of that allows for individual details for more than one person without confounding the information that goes into the infobox. The yearbook image is also one image. Granted, it's not the perfect solution to the problem, but at the moment, it seems the best solution. Splitting the image isn't the answer, adapting the infobox is. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

So can't we just split the picture into two (while keeping the original where it is)? --zenohockey (talk) 03:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol, yes, someone could. It's a little beyond my capability given my current computer issues. Would you like to tackle it? Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. --zenohockey (talk) 04:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harris having OCD?

I beleive he had OCD, I don't remember the exact sites that said this, but apparently he was diagnosed with it, and he was on medication as well. Is this worth adding to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liquinn (talk • contribs) 16:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where you think you read it, but I've read fairly much everything around about these two and I have not read that. He was on medication but it was a little ambiguous as to its purpose save that the particular medication was an SSRI given for depression that is also given to some with OCD. If someone wrote that somewhere, it was likely extrapolation from the medication. There is a section that discusses to a small part, pyschological autopsies of the two, which did use some of the medical information about them, and it did not mention OCD. Finally, it would only be relevant, were Harris obsessive-compulsive, if it were related to his actions. It wasn't. Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I found a source:

Much has been made about the possible influence of Luvox on the behavior of Eric Harris (Bergin [sic] 1999; Murphy 2001; O'Meara 2001). Luvox is a serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) in the Prozac family. Eric had first been prescribed Zoloft, another SSRI, when he was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder following his arrest for the theft of equipment from a truck the previous fall. Subsequently, Zoloft was replaced by Luvox. As noted by the medical community, SSRIs can produce psychotic responses, especially mania and paranoia. However, it is as senseless to suggest that Luvox caused the Columbine shootings as it is to blame it on psychopathology. It may be that Luvox paradoxically intensified Harris's manic state and sense of persecution. However, planing and preparing for the massacre began long before Eric Harris started taking Zoloft and Luvox. Dylan Klebold had no drugs in his system according to the autopsy (Columbine Research Site 2003). The effects of Luvox on the Columbine shootings are unknown, as the effects of steroids on the behavior of members of the football and wrestling teams is unknown.

—Ralph W. Larkin, Comprehending Columbine (Temple University Press, 2007), 119. The book is searchable on Google Books. --zenohockey (talk) 06:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm still skeptical about the veracity of the OCD diagnosis. If that was the justification given for the Luvox, it doesn't explain why he was first given Zoloft, which was not a drug of treatment for OCD in 1998. Only later was it given for that. My sense of it is that a diagnosis was necessary for justification of the drug, which was given in conjunction with his court ordered intervention and anger management treatment. Given my professional experience with SSRIs and manifestations of side effects, suicidal ideation and psychosis are sometimes exacerbated for those with primary psychiatric diagnoses that are related to psychosis, such as schizophrenia, or to a lesser degree, bipolar disorder, where it also can exacerbate mania. I'd support an addition of wording such as "given ostensibly for OCD" but nothing that would confirm the diagnosis, since the later psychological profiles by the FBI didn't include that, and there is nothing to suggest that it was the cause of the actions of both of them. I just don't want the article to slant toward allowing blame to be assigned elsewhere, or suggesting that this was the cause. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)