Talk:Education in the Netherlands
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Just a note when translating foreign words into English in an english language text: its not necessary to put the word 'literaly' in front of EVERY translation. Simply putting the words inside () is enough. In a text as this one where several words and phrases are being translated into English, it almost gets annoying. Besides its obvious the translations are literal. A 'literal' translation simply means you are translating each word independantly, regardless of thier relation to each other in the language they are being translated into. However since the phrases and words translated mean pretty much the same (both together and indpendantly) in English, its not necessary to add 'literaly' to each translation. Check out the article on Literal Translations on this Wiki. This is not meant so much as a critisizm, more as advice for the writer (obviously dutch), who's English is very good except for these small mistakes. _________________________________________________
Sorry, but these abbreviations are a mumbo-jumbo to the reader. What is po, vo, bhe etc? Please enlighten us all. :-(
- The official categories, which are abbreviations of the Dutch terms for what is explained in the article. - Patrick 20:44, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
po should be bo (basis onderwijs)
Could someone give a brief history the education system? Preferably someone connected to the school systems? Ask a friend to expand this article.--DennisDaniels 14:55, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I just edited in the difference about when the cassical languages are given in Gymnasium schools. Should we include information on the 2e fase? (2nd phase, big mixup thanks to the government, most people have low opinions on it.) --Kasperl 11:24, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Have attempted to put a litle more order into the start of this article by putting the general before the particular and sorting out the abbreviations. Rest of the article still to be looked at in detail. -- Picapica 12:19, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Just corrected the date that the Mammoetwet was introduced, and included the mentioning of that name -- DodgeK 00:18, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Template:Education infobox
I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Copyediting
This article was clearly written by a Dutchman! I made some general improvements in the idiom and grammar. Perhaps some more attention should be given to the universities? JFW | T@lk 22:18, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for taking out my spelling mistakes! Feel free to expand the section on universities, but I kept it short seeing there already is a List of universities in the Netherlands and an article on Dutch universities (but the latter has a tag that it should be improved, perhaps it should just be merged with this article...). Well anyway: feel free! -- C mon 07:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sex Education in the Netherlands
One thing I what like to see, is a section about the sex education policy in the Netherlands. Their sex education is seen a beacon in the teaching of sex and relationships, and subsequently it has the lowest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. It is vastly different to the UK, where we have the highest rate in Western Europe, caused by the only teaching is just the biological part and about STDs. Even this, is not compulsory! 159753 23:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- I don't see a page on it on the Dutch wiki. There is a brief mention on the statement you made on the Sex education page but the Netherlands does not have a truly stunning sex education policy. Personally, from a Health Psychology view, I deem social and cultural circumstances to be of more importance than the teaching of sex and relationships in schools. I do not see a direct cause for adding this unless I can be provided with a scientific article showing evidence that family and place of residence are inferior to sex education in schools. -- Eddyspeeder 13:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Various TBA
Although this page is coming about nicely, it still lacks certain vital aspects.
1. The use of a propedeuse in the Netherlands, which should be mentioned for both HBO and WO. I wrote an article on it very recently and am well aware it still lacks references; I intend to expand that article with among others more background information on the introduction of the system. References will then be added accordingly.
2. The distinction between HBO and WO should be further deepened, including mentioning that the Netherlands has a Hogeschool / University system (including its history), and what separates WO (theoretical) from HBO (practical). There is also a need for a separate article on what a Hogeschool is.
3. Although I agree with the designer of the image to leave out certain aspects, it should be clarified that upon completing one's WO Master, one can choose to become a researcher as opposed to entering the job market. In regard to the image and propedeuse; it is best left out as the propedeuse is a part of the bachelor.
- Great work! Great work! -- C mon 07:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Thanks ;-) I resolved issue #1, but I think #2 needs a little more work. Maybe we can work on a Hogeschool wiki together? -- Eddyspeeder 12:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
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- On issue #2 I tend not to make separate articles on specifically Dutch phenomena. I propose we discuss the difference between HBO and WO in this article, paying attention to parallels from other english-speaking countries. A Hogeschool is very similar to a polytechnic if I remember correctly. -- C mon 13:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
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- You are right. It is also stated as such on the polytechnic page as well as on the list of Universities. I'll make sure (Thursday/Friday) that there will just be a Hogeschool stub, referring to the list of universities and such. I think I'm also going to clean up the Dutch universities page (note, this page is not the list of universities). -- Eddyspeeder 13:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Your comment on the Dutch universities page with Copyediting (see above) is noted. Although I do not see any reason to mention sex education in the Netherlands, would it be interesting discussing the use of cannabis on middelbare scholen, hogescholen/universiteiten and even basisscholen? -- Eddyspeeder 13:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Free Tax-Payed Education?
Is education is free/tax-payed up to the university level? Or does free/tax-payed education exist only until secondary school? Zachorious 20:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes. For secondary school "schoolgeld" is required, usually in the magnitude of Eur 700/yr in the earlier years till Eur 1500+ for Masters) 88.159.74.100 12:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Atheneum plus
Although VWO+ sometimes offer just latin as extra (compulsory) class, other schools may differ in their approach. For example, I finished VWO+ that included philosophy, spanish, culture and "scientific education" as compulsory classes (in addition to increased depth in general), but not latin. I suggest changing the article to reflect that VWO+ is a more challenging option than VWO that may differ from school to school. Source may include: http://www.zernike.nl/site/web/index.php?MOD=text&mid1=916
6th of Februari 2007, 6:10PM UTC
[edit] Additional Resources
It might be helpful to add some English references to the article. As I'm currently writing a paper on school-to-work transition in the Netherlands I happen to have a list of them here for people to sort though and determine if they would benefit the article. As an aside, there are a few things in the article which I have not encountered in any of my English language sources. Note that most of these sources primarily discuss what the English language world calls Vocational Education or Career and Technical Education (HAVO, HBO, VMBO, MBO and the old MAVO, VBO, LLW schools) but contain background information about other aspects of the educational system.
- CEDEFOP (2004) Vocational education and training in the Netherlands: Short description. Revised edition. Available online
- CEDEFOP (2003) Vocational education and training in the Netherlands Paper English language version orderable
- OECD (1994) Vocational training in the Netherlands: Reform and innovation. Paris: OECD.
- Dronkers, J. (1993) The precarious balance between general and vocational education in the Netherlands. European Journal of Education, 28(2) 197-207.
- Streumer, J.N. (1999) School-to-work transition programs in the Netherlands. In S. Stern & D.A. Wagner (Eds.), International perspectives on the school-to-work transition (pp. 335-384). Cresskill, NJ: Hampton Press.
--BenFranske 20:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Duration
A lot of studies, specially technical are 5 years now. The picture could reflect that. (maybe the text could also be clarified what is the most common duration for WO) 88.159.74.100 12:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Grading systems compared
This section is lacking in references, and I can thus not find the numbers mentioned here. The Nuffic institute has published the following paper: [1]. This summarizes the grades in high schools, and universities. There is substantial variation in the percentages for a 9 or a 10. The sum for 8, 9, and 10 is also much higher than 15% for VWO and universities.
It seems to me that either this information should be supported with references, or else the section should be rewritten based on other (aforementioned) references. Maybe it suffices to state that there is no simple relation between Dutch grades and other grading systems, rather than try to give actual percentages?
This same information is used in Grade (education). --Sentewolf 12:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] No maths in CM/C&M profile
With the new system - just introduced this school year - maths is not a compulsory subject for the Culture & Society profile(Cultuur & Maatschappij profiel). ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mecanita (talk • contribs) 17:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
