Talk:Deutz Geldermann

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[edit] Article

I created this page after being frustrated at being unable to find information about Deutz Geldermann on the internet. I carefully researched and linked it. Someone seems to have deleted it on the grounds of its being an article about a company and non-notable. If it were non-notable I would hardly have been searching for material on it. It is an historical company with a current descendant, which to me makes it interesting. There can really be no reasonable grounds for deleting an article of this type.

[edit] Speedy deletion

As for speedy deletion, speedy deletions seem to be reasonable for troublesome articles such as malicious articles, or joke articles, but not this. This just denies a chance for editors to put the case for an article's retention. The deleter of this article placed a note on my talk page and by the time I had seen it, the article had been deleted already! Having placed the hangon template on the page, it was deleted again! So two points I am making here - the first paragraph is the justification of the page (if justification be needed), and the second is questioning the need for speedy deletion of articles that are not actually problematic. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 16:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Howdy David, as a member of the Wine Project, I agree that Deutz is notable, however I can see how a "non-wine" person would not see that by looking at the article in its current state. Being a winery (or even a champagne producer) by itself is not a de facto establishment of notability just like being a restaurant or a pizza shop is not, in and of itself, notable. There has to be a little more done with the simplest application of WP:CORP being the inclusion of non-trivial, independent reliable sources who speak at length about the producer. (Like Wine Spectator, Decanter, Wine Enthusiast etc) You may want to take a look at similar articles on Champagne producers like Bollinger, Cattier and Champagne Krug to see how these articles clearly establish their notability. You may also find some help in the essay Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I was the one who tagged it for deletion since it asserted no notability, as Agne noted above. This needs significant sourcing to avoid further tags (AfD or speedy) for deletion. TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 15:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for further comments...

I certainly shall have a look at the related articles. However I think that except in the case of self-promotion, the concept of non-notability is the most subjective and weakest of grounds for deletion. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 18:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC)