Talk:David Duke

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To-do list for David Duke:

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Here are some tasks you can do: Cleanup: Finish completing references using citation templates. Answer the question as to whether or not Duke's PhD was awarded or Ukrainian's University in Kiev or achieved through doctoral requisites. Expand: /* Public appearances */ section, with information about earlier activities in the '70s and '80s. /* Guilty plea and incarceration */ with clarification of violation of tax laws. /* Knights of the Ku Klux Klan */ David Duke's position as Grand Wizard needs more depth. NPOV: Remove racist propaganda and neo-Nazi rhetoric

Archives

Archive 1

Contents 1 Why do all racists feel the need to post propaganda in this article? 2 The Israeli Lobby and US Foreign Policy Book 3 White Haven ??? 4 What the heck? 5 Removed photo 6 A few words about taxes 7 David Duke Photos 8 Jewish supremacy? 9 Some info from someone who knows Duke personally 10 Duke etc. 11 Anti-Racist 12 Controversies section 13 Ostensible Christian? 14 PhD 15 Holocaust denier? 16 Relation to Ron Paul? 17 Not a Paleoconservative 18 neo-Nazi 19 correction in the part about ernst zuendel

[edit] Why do all racists feel the need to post propaganda in this article?

I feel as though this article is a constant battle between the racists and the rest of the world? It appears as though every bigot with an Internet connects has attempted to edit this article at one point or another in attempts to purify David Duke’s image in spite of the numerous legitimist sources documenting his 30 year history saturated with hate filled rhetoric and sympathy for Nazism. I have had this article on my watch list since 2003 and this is the first time I have ever posting anything on Wikipedia ever, yet this article represents everything that is wrong with allowing anyone and everyone to submit what they please regarding any subject. Thank you for allowing me to vent. No responses necessary. 76.109.159.173 (talk) 05:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I feel compelled to respond. First off, I would like to express that I share your sentiments 100%, however I do not think that this is the most appropriate forum to address such concerns. Second, review WP:NPOV for more information. Lastly, read WP:NOT#FORUM, and you should understand why... DrunkenDialer (talk) 05:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Israeli Lobby and US Foreign Policy Book

Well crafted, linking that book to David Duke's wikipedia page. I wouldn't be surprised if that edit came via the JDL's office in New York. Excellent character assassination, whoever did that has got sik game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.63.69 (talk) 16:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, David Duke rather slits his own throat every time he says/writes anything. Pointing out what he says/does is hard;y "assassination."FlaviaR (talk) 06:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] White Haven ???

Can someone remove this? Some fool with nothing better to do is trying to be funny.

Duke has no connection to White Haven Tegbridges 23:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC) Tyler Bridges, author of The Rise of David Duke

I removed the reference to White Haven. I left the citations that followed that reference but commented them out. Gr8white 18:36, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What the heck?

What does DD have to do with Oklahoma or "White Haven"? And what I really would like to know is this: why does he merit such a massive page? I knew him and many other influential figures in New Orleans, and he is just not that important. You could easily remove 3/4 of this article and have everything anyone but his spouse needs to know about him. I do love the quote from Edwin Edwards... <eg> Nirigihimu 18:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed photo

I removed the photograph per the policy in Wikipedia talk:Elimination of Fair Use Rationale in Promotional Photos/Vote#My_own_view 141.154.234.76 01:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few words about taxes

Several sources do indicate that Duke pleaded guilty to "tax evasion." However, upon closer inspection, it appears based on the best information I've seen so far, that he actually pleaded guilty to filing a false tax return, and to mail fraud. The term "tax evasion" is a technical legal term. Federal tax evasion in the United States is criminalized at 26 U.S.C. § 7201. Filing a false tax return is 26 U.S.C. § 7206. These are two separate crimes. A person filing a false tax return may certainly also have committed tax evasion -- but it does not appear that Duke was charged with tax evasion. I changed the article accordingly. Yours, Famspear 03:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David Duke Photos

• [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]

• [11], [12][13]

• [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24]

[edit] Jewish supremacy?

Why does Jewish supremacy redirect here?

[edit] Some info from someone who knows Duke personally

intro:

When I first read about David Duke, I was quite shocked. As a French patriot, I had some understanding for his point of views. However, I couldn't codone hatefull attitudes towards minorities and people of other nations. So one day I decided to meet him and confront him. That was at his meeting in Philadelphia in January 2000. I soon realized he was very different from what the media said about him. We have been friends since.

purpose:

I read dozens of Wikipedia articles every day. I consider it a neutral source source of information and I want it to stay that way. I'm happy to contribute by bringing up some facts. That doesn't mean I want to promote his point of views on this site. However, Wikipedia ought to be accurate, even when the subject is highly controversial (to say the least).

I have read most of this discussion. I think some things need to be clarified.

facts:

Date of birth: David Duke was born on July 1st. I corrected this a while ago but since, someone put July 13th.

White Nationalist vs White Supremacism: He wants to preserve the white race. He believes that genes, not education make a person who he or she is. Is used the IQ curve difference of white and black people as an example to make his point. That doesn't mean that he believes that the white race is a "superior race". So I don't think that "White supremacist" is the right word. But he does believe that races should make up nations. I think the term "White nationalist" is the one that should apply.

Is he a racist? If you define a racist as someone for whom race plays a central place in society, then he certainly is one. If you define a racist as someone who hates people because they are of other races, then that term shouldn't apply. He was raised by a black woman. One of his very good friends is Chinese. He gets along with black people. He does believes that the high crime rate in Louisiana is due its multiethnic society. I can't remembering him use derogatory language against colored people either.

Revisionism vs Denier: David Duke isn't an expert in Holocaust matters. He never claimed to be one. He never denied that it happened. But he does point out what he believes are strong inconsistencies among the different official versions of it. He also strongly comdens the fact in Europe historians are sent to jail for questioning one or the other aspect of the local version. For example, in 2005, it was claimed on French news that the liberation of Auschwitz took place in the winter of 1945, in January; and that the official pictures were shot 6 month later in the summer. If a European historian crossed the border from France to Germany and repeated this, he would face up to 5 years in jail for "Holocaust denial" or "Holocaust minimization". In 2006, he attended the "Holocaust conference" in Iran, where he met privately with the Iranian president and sought support for persecuted revisionist historians. I think the term "revisionist" and "free speech activist" are the appropriate ones to use.

Jews and Antisemitism: He strongly opposes the Zionists, their lobby, the Jewish religion(s), their supporters and everything they stand for. That doesn't mean he opposes all Semites or even all people who have a Jewish background.

ADL and SPLC: I don't think these are very good source of information. Their people google around fishing for a few facts then write articles making up the rest of the facts. I recently found an article about myself on the SPLC page. They made up most of it. They had no source of information except the little they could find on the net. And yet they managed to write 2-3 pages of stuff about me which is a mix of wild guesses, defamation and forgery. They went as far a rewrite citations and claim I wrote them. They also claim I'm a Belgian Webmaster in my early 30's. They didn't even get that right. I'm neither Belgian nor in my early 30's. They are very biased and certainly not very reliable nor credible sources of information.

His Phds: He got 2 dotorates. One on an honorary base and another one for history. He also used to teach at this university in Ukraine. They offer courses in English. While a Phd from the Ukrainian MAUP university may not be as valuable as one from Harvard, nevertheless it is a university with 50K students, whose Doctorates can hardly be compared to those on sale on the internet. I don't see a reason why David Duke's Doctorate shouldn't be considered legitimate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aubignosc (talk • contribs).

Oh, you know him personally? Then tell that arrogant fool that, as a white man myself, I find his "cause" to be full of shit. And maybe someone shoudl tell him that if he's gonna chanpion for "Eurpoean Americans" he should include ANYONE of Spanish descent, as Spain is in EUROPE! He's a violent racist and it's men like him that make me wish I was not white. But no, "white supremacist" is pushing it, as he's been kissing up to the Muslims A LOT lately. If you painted David Duke's skin brown, you'd have Louis Farrakhan. I had my ass beat in January by several KKK members(both Wal-Mart employees and police- took 5 people to subdue me, a K-9 unit sent to haul me and the police captain made a personal appearance to handle it with a lot of bogus "shoplifting" charges to justify their excessive force! I knew what was going down from the start- I'd insulted the KKK the very night before and this was their "educational method"!) for speaking out against the white race, well, they can just beat my ass again because I will not shut up! If they want me silenced, they can just outright kill me this time, if they have the balls. I would punch David Duke in the face if I ever met him and I will do all in my power to undermine the white race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.162.204.6 (talk) 08:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. A couple of points: We keep the encyclopeia neutral and verifiable by reelying on sources rather than personal opinion. Without sources to confirm info we can't use it. That's true both of factual info, like his birthdate, and opinions. I don't think we say that his Ph.D. is illegitimate. Regarding "white nationalist" vs. "white supremacist" and "Holocaust denier" vs. "Holocause revisionist", those are sematic issues that are difficult to resolve, but for all intents and purposes the terms are synonymous. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

---

In this case I'm the source. The date of birth, July 1st is the date he dictated his staff who filled the 2000 census for him, while I was with them at the office in Mandeville. Yesterday, I also called him in Russia to recheck. As far as his opinions are concerned, we had plenty of time to talk about them.

The only things I changed on the article itself was picture, I put one I took myself, and the date of birth. But after I read the discussion, I thought I had to put some things strait.

I think Wikipedia needs to be accurate and choose its word carefully. For instance, I'm a French patriot, you could even say nationalist; and yet my favorite author is Shakespear. So I think I could hardly be called a French supremacist. Nationalism is the believe that peoples and nations should be in charge of their own destinies. I really don't see how this can be synonymous with supremacist! Also someone can disagree with certain interpretions of an event without denying it ever happened. Someone who reviews an event is a revisionist. If someone denies the event ever happened, he can't review it in the first place! So for all intents and purposes, revisionist and denier are antonyms.

PS: I just checked in his book "My Awakening": "My mother gave birth to me by Cesarean section at 11:36 am on July 1, 1950, at St John's Hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma".

Emmanuel d'Aubignosc

--Aubignosc 00:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

We can use his book as the source for his birthdate because it's published. Likewise, we can't use your comments here as a source because they aren't published. For our general policy, see Wikipedia:Verifiability. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Emmanuel, you have no chance to make this article better. Accounts like User:Jayjg, User:Y, User:John, User:Jpgordon, User:Arthur Rubin, User:El C etc. own articles about people that thay hate and they will block you if you will disagree with their biased edits. Welcome to Wikipedia! --Th.colemann.557 01:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duke etc.

Please see [25]. Also, erroneous claims do not make a "pattern". Please be more careful in your accusations in the future. Thanks. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Racist

An editor added Category:Anti-Racists to the article, saying:

• He says he does not think of himself as a racist, however, stating that he is a "racial realist" and that he believes that "all people have a basic human right to preserve their own heritage.

Those comments don't show why we should categorize this subject as "anti-racist". Do we have any relaible source that calls him that? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversies section

The controversies section includes two things that are not controversial per se-- the fact that he once wrote a book aimed at females under a female pseudonym and that he has had plastic surgery and shaved his mustache??? Come on, this is David Duke. Those things are not controversial at all compared to many other things written about him over the years. I see no reason to include them, and it doesn't seem that they have been written about as controversial in the mainstream press, either.--Gloriamarie 11:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Those are facts of this life that should be included in the article. Rather than deleting them it'd be bettre to rename the section or to distribute them to more appropriate sections. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 16:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and moved the items into roughly chronologicla order. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 16:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ostensible Christian?

"Ostensible" has to go. David Duke is a racist and a fascist, it's true, but it's irresponsible to state that his belief in Christianity is merely opportunistic unless you have evidence to the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.155.181.6 (talk) 04:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I think people put "ostensible" in there because he is exactly as you describe, and they therefore feel that, according to the most agreed-upon definition of Xianity, he can't be a real one.FlaviaR (talk) 06:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

For the record, Nazism is an ideologically anti-Christian ideology. So if he's a neo-Nazi, either he's bullshitting about his claims being a Christian (hey, Hitler did the same) or he just doesn't understand his ideology. On the other hand, he has a past in the Ku Klux Klan, and they are not anti-Christianity (generally speaking), but the Ku Klux Klan shouldn't be confused with Nazism (even though, in practise, they're very much the same). — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 22:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PhD

I am going add that he is a professor of history and international relations with the Ukrainian Interregional Academy of Personnel Management (MAUP). in the introduction since that is significant, important, and is his current occupation. I don't see where anyone has been disputing against something like that so I will do it. It seems worthwhile to me, and I believe others. to put it at the beginning of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RG415WBFA (talk • contribs) 00:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You need to find a source before adding content to wikipedia, especially something like that. Yahel Guhan 02:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Will this source do? — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 14:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it won't do, Elias. That source says that he has a PhD, not that he's a professor. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 10:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Holocaust denier?

David Duke is listed under the category, en:Category:Holocaust deniers. However, there are no sources cited that he has personally denied the Holocaust. Yes, it's true that he attended the Holocaust conference, but that does not automatically make him a denier of the Holocaust, because that conference hosted mainstream Holocaust scholars and those who were critical (in various ways) of the Holocaust. He did not deny the Holocaust on that conference. He questioned its authority and why people are being locked up because of it in Europe. Furthermore, if he has written or said "the Holocaust did never happen", it would be great if this can be sourced from his own website (a primary source) and not secondary sources. I'm removing the category for now due to lack of sources, and, because it's a a highly loaded POV category, and it shouldn't be labelled on everyone who is questioning the Holocaust. Unlike Ahmadinejad, I see no sources stating that Duke has expressed that the Holocaust is a myth. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 12:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews. With all due respect, I think it's an unnecessary and overly exact parsing of words to say that he didn't use the exact words denying the Holocaust: in fact, he's just denied one of the most major components of it, and openly fraternized with those who deny it themselves. The fact that his website says that he takes no hard position, but rather that he is simply for an "respect for intellectual freedom" in allowing either possibility, is not reassuring. This position is, in fact, exactly the same as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who also has the tag attached to his name. The Evil Spartan (talk) 12:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are those who question the reliability of Fox News, but a source like that is a good start. I would however, still like to see it quoted from his site, where he says that the Holocaust didn't happen in one way or the other. In his book, Jewish Supremacism, David Duke dedicates the book to Israel Shahak, and he calls him "Holocaust survivor". So he's not really denying the Holocaust. He questions some aspects of the current "official version", but that's not the same as denying an event wherein Jews where murdered or starved to death (and that did of course happen). Obviously, the entire gassing with Zyclon B thing is very suspect and very likely just nonsense propaganda. Many of these theories have been proven wrong anyway (for example, the ridiculous theory that they made soap out of Jews).[26] This gas chamber thing is likely to be derived from the same nonsense. — EliasAlucard / Discussion 18:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Elias, I'm sure someone has mentioned this to you before, but Wikipedia prefers secondary sources to primary ones. So far as the gas chambers are concerned, the pure wingnuttery of claiming that they didn't exist or weren't really gas chambers is central to Holocaust denial. It's also easily refuted by even the most cursory honest examination of the available evidence. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 10:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Relation to Ron Paul?

Explaination? [27] [28] Devlin McGregor (talk) 04:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Devlin, would you mind telling us all what sort of improvement you have in mind for the article? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 10:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Question was answered, thanks... Devlin McGregor (talk) 04:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not a Paleoconservative

Please remove Cat:Paleoconservatives from this article. David Duke has never identified as such and the sources for this claim are entirely lacking (to my knowledge). And it's a safe assertion that Duke also has significant political differences with the members of that movement. 12.65.102.248 (talk) 20:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

In what way is he not a paleo? He believes that one but not the only component of a nation is race. He opposes transfer payments, reparations, forced bussing, affirmative action, the idolization of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He is against illegal immigration and once illegals to be deported. He is a devout Christian, or at least he thinks he is, and supports the family as the central unit of society. He is against the Iraq War and aid to Israel. He believes in the right to own a gun. He is a federalist, I believe.--Comradesandalio (talk) 21:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't work like that. We don't just sit around trying to decide what labels fit on each person and then attach them. Instead, we primarily take the guy's word for it, so if Duke doesn't say something like "I am a paleoconservative" (whatever that is), then we don't say that he is. Maybe if someone else (say, Joe, an authority on Duke and paleoconservatism) says Duke is a paleoconservative, then we could say that Joe says so. But we don't make those judgments ourselves. Phiwum (talk) 21:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. See WP:No original research. We report but we don't decide. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] neo-Nazi

Why is he listed in the American neo-Nazis category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.46.98.124 (talk) 19:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Neo-Nazi is somewhat questionable. Paleoconservative is ridiculous. 70.157.121.16 (talk) 01:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

See the section on his youth that says:

Duke went on to study at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge and in 1970, he formed a White student group known as the White Youth Alliance, which was affiliated with the National Socialist White People's Party. That same year, he became well-known for a demonstration in which he appeared in Nazi dress, to protest William Kunstler's appearance at Tulane University in New Orleans. He was involved in the campus Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) where he received awards, until he was expelled due to his radical beliefs. In 1971, he went to Laos to teach English to Laotian military officers and serve on cargo flights for Air America over the course of ten weeks.[13] Duke returned to LSU, graduating in 1974. He became famous on campus for wearing a Nazi uniform while picketing and holding parties on the anniversary of the birth of Adolf Hitler.

Wearing Nazi uniforms, celebrating Hitler's birthday, and forming a National Socialist party seem to be good reasons to consider the subjects as having been a member of the Neo-Nazi movement. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:20, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

This is getting pretty irritating. Someone please remove CAT: Paleoconservatives from this article. It does not belong and is completely unsourced. 68.155.193.42 (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] correction in the part about ernst zuendel

The following sentence from the paragraph Ernst Zündel and the Zundelsite is not correct as it is now.

Zündel is being held in a German prison on charges of inciting the masses to ethnic hatred.[39]

He is imprisoned because of the "denial, belittlement and/or approvement" of the genocide under the national socialistic party which is a crime according to german law (see § 130, 3 penal code). Inciting the masses to ethnic hatred is subject of § 130, 1, 2 but that is not why he got sentenced to five years. Maybe someone wants to correct this.