Talk:Daniel Dunglas Home

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Contents 1 NPOV 2 Crookes 3 ISBN numbers 4 GA 5 Fake or genuine? 6 GA Review

[edit] NPOV

This article needs a complete rewrite - if no-one objects, I will go ahead and do this (at some point in the near future).

Starting on the rewrite - I will draw from the original article, web and print sources. Pointers would be helpful, so feel free to chime in! NOTE: All of what will become this article is as unbiased as possible, however hard to believe it is - the current skeptical bent of the article does not do Home justice. Redxela Sinnak 14:17, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

This article is not skeptical in tone, just informed and fact-based. It is not necessary to mutilate factual entries to make airheads feel better about being credulous. Rory Coker

Thankyou for your stirling contribution. Redxela Sinnak 09:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree Redxela Sinnak, this article is full of original research. I think you should be bold and begin hacking out the stuff that doesn't tell us something about D.D. Home's life. Anthon.Eff 19:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crookes

I removed "who had been expecting a thorough refutation of Home's claims" because I don't believe they expected that. Maybe Doyle thinks they did, but - didn't everybody already know by then that Crookes was easy to fool? He already had been into spiritualism for four years. --Hob Gadling 15:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, Hob, I challenge you. Find one reputable source that says "everybody already knew by then that Crookes was easy to fool." It seems rather that the shock and dismay at Crookes' report was due to the fact that everyone had thought him to be a hard-headed scientist. I'm looking forward to your procurement of the source... Anthon.Eff 17:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not the one who is claiming anything. At the moment we don't know one way or the other. The article reflects that by not claiming one or the other. So that's okay. If you want the claim back in, find a source (other than Conan "I believe in fairies because of obviously fake photographs" Doyle). --Hob Gadling 17:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hob, you really are too fond of ad hominem arguments. Anthon.Eff 18:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Come on! You want Wikipedia to just copy Doyle's opinion? That's not NPOV. I'm sorry, but there are people who are easy to fool but don't know they are, and we shouldn't take at face value what people say. Would you please give a real reason why "who had been expecting a thorough refutation of Home's claims" should be in the article, instead of going off on tangents? Do you even want "who had been expecting a thorough refutation of Home's claims" in the article? --Hob Gadling 14:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISBN numbers

Any chance of putting them in? --andreasegde (talk) 13:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA

I have started work on this article, with the aim of taking it to GA status. Anybody willing to add references or work with me on this (but no edit wars, please) is totally welcome. --andreasegde (talk) 19:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

More is going in, and it is going well. Time to find more references from the web, as well as Lamont's book and the others. --andreasegde (talk) 19:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I have also up-graded it to a B. --andreasegde (talk) 19:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fake or genuine?

My opinion is open on this one, because if he was a fake, he was a very good one. --andreasegde (talk) 23:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

This is my first GA review so it will take me a little longer to review.

• Better caption needed for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle pic. how is he related to Home?--Redtigerxyz (talk) 06:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, will do. Thanks for the review. --andreasegde (talk) 14:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   "too many long sentences".

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Refs 5,11,47 is link to Google maps??? why? remove this ref as not a ref. Ref 46 says Cox owned the hotel, not that he was related to Home.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Though for a FAC in future, more should be returned about his wives, CHILDREN AND PERSONAL LIFE.

   B. Focused:

   See cases of WP:UNDUE, listed below. Resolved

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   The article states the visions (like of Edwin and Elizabeth) as facts. Something like "is believed to have had visions" would be more suitable.

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   "The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement for Good articles." The image of the "Shetucket Street in Norwich, Connecticut, in 1909" seems to be out of context as 1. Shetucket Street not mentioned 2. In 1909, Home was long dead.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

• Can "(pronounced "Hume")" be incorporated in the text, instead of just a img caption.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Scotchy" links to list of ethnic slurs, where it is not mentioned. Is it an ethnic slur??

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Home's mother, Elizabeth Home (née McNeill) was known as a seer in Scotland, as were many of her predecessors—like her great uncle Colin Uruqhart, and her uncle Mr. McKenzie—although the gift of second sight was often seen as a curse, as it foretold instances of tragedy and death." can be split into 2 sentences.:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
• "Evidence supports the elder Home's illegitimacy, as various payments meant for William were made by the 10th Earl to a Mr. Alexander Philip. William served an apprenticeship as House Carpenter under Mr. Philip between 1820 to 1827." Too much detail about the father.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I suggest the whole thing be removed. As now the Question rises who is Mr. Alexander Philip.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Gone. --andreasegde (talk) 08:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Elizabeth and William were married when he was 19-years-old, and found employment at the Balerno paper mill, which had a number of small houses built for its workforce." IMO split

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Although once having contained a number of trout, the river became polluted by the chloride of lime and other chemicals used in the mill and then flushed into the river." WP:UNDUE detail.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Why do you need a description about the river.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Because the river ran behind the house and it was polluted. It was detailing the conditions Home grew up with and not portraying it as beautiful Scotland... The river has now gone. --andreasegde (talk) 08:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• The first 12 lines in "Early life" do not mention the subject Daniel Home. Maybe the section should be split into Family and Early life.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

*"As the one-year-old Home was deemed a delicate child, having a "nervous temperament", he was passed to Elizabeth's childless sister, Mary Cook, who lived with her husband in the coastal town of Portobello, 3 miles east of Edinburgh, although the cost of raising so many children may have contributed to the move." split:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "seen to be rocked by invisible hands," Paradox intended???? reword.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "At 13-years-old Home did not join in sports games with other boys, preferring to take walks in the local woods with a friend called Edwin, reading the Bible to each other and telling stories, and made a pact stating that if one or the other were to die, they would try and make contact after death" split:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
• "Home and his mother's reunion was short-lived however, as Elizabeth foretold her own death in 1850, which was also later confirmed by Home, after he saw the head of his mother in a vision saying, "Dan, twelve o'clock", which was the time of her death at the age of forty-two.[" split:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. Missed "However" (Wikipedia:Words to avoid). Reword eliminating however.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done However gone. --andreasegde (talk) 08:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• Use named refs when using the same ref n times e.g. 59,60,61 and 70, 73.

Y Done Changed them.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Home never directly asked for money, although he lived very well on gifts, donations and lodging from wealthy admirers, as he felt he was on a "mission to demonstrate immortality", and wished to interact with his clients as one gentleman to another, rather than as an employee" split:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
• 'He resided at the Theological Institute, but took no part in any of the theological discussions held there, as he wanted to take a course in medicine with the funding of one Dr. Hull, who offered to pay Home five dollars a day for his séances, but Home refused, as always.'SPLIT

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• Use TB directly instead of old-fashioned consumption, to be crystal clear.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• IMO, section headings should be according stages of life like "Years 1234-1267" or places, not Both.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this. The sections are named and none are in years.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that they include years. Something like "Early Life (1234-1267)". Just a suggestion. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen that used before. See FA William Shakespeare as example. --andreasegde (talk) 08:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• Sir Arthur Conan Doyle "became involved with spiritualism after the deaths of his son and his brother," UNDUE. remove segment.

Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• "She merely slipped her foot out and in of her sturdy shoe." Who she? Euspapia or Crookes??? In what context. REword.:Y Done Changed it.--andreasegde (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

She is not clear who?? Replace she with Crookes. (hope i am right)--[[User:Redtigerxyz|Redtigerxyz]] (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

--Redtigerxyz (talk) 06:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It now reads: "Crooke's method of foot control later proved inadequate when used with Eusapia Palladino, as she merely slipped her foot out and in of her sturdy shoe." --andreasegde (talk) 08:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• Img caption of infobox should be where and when was pic taken.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 13:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

No idea when and where, as the photo was taken from Commons. Uploader is from Dutch Wiki. --andreasegde (talk) 08:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Please explain Google maps as refs, after which i will be glad to pass the article.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 10:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Google references have gone. I only put them in to show where Home lived. --andreasegde (talk) 14:06, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Passed. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 07:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I thank you. --andreasegde (talk) 22:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)