Talk:Daniel Cohn-Bendit
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08:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)Why say he was born to German-Jewish parents ? Do we have to mention the ethnic or religious background of every person referred to in Wikipedia ? Do we say Mr X is born to Christian parents ? Do we say Mrs Y is born to slavic parents ? Moreover, his mother is French, not German. --ElVirolo 15:00, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Someone added that Cohn-Bendit 'lives happy with his boyfriend'. Don't know if this is true, nor do I much care. Can't see the relevance either way. Mattley 10:39, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
How is his surname pronounced? And is it pronounced in the same way in France and as in Germany? 217.44.206.242 21:32, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi. I am sorry but this articles seems to me outrageously in favour of this politician. I doubt an objective article is possible in his case, but I am going to try. I think the sentence "Although a German citizen, Cohn-Bendit felt he was far more a citizen of Europe than any particular country" is waaaay too much a partisan justification of his present influence in the European parliament. I agree to the mention of German-Jewish origins, because he was born in fr due to WWII expulsions, and he often refers to Jewish culture himself.--81.220.15.5 10:16, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
He does not currently represent the German Green party in the European parliament: He is co-president of the Green parliamentary group, no matter which nationality. He did not emerge as the only leader of the 1968 movement. His Jewishness was not an issue to the totality of right-wing opposition, and was an issue in other parts of political society. Retrospectively this 1968 period doesn't look that exceptionnal, and only the generation who participated continues calling it "tumultuous history", "great events"... He never became leader of the French Greens in the European parliament. He was the leader of the list of candidates in France in the last but one European election, and never held another position in the French Green party, nor participated to another election there. It is not from "other leftists" only that he received criticisms, but from all parts of the Left spectrum, including the majority of Greens, for allying repeatedly with Right-wing leaders. Can anyone quote any "work" that would have had any lasting influence on anarchist or socialist thought? At least in French political literature his "works" are never referred to. The fact that he is presented as a "football fan" is a criticless transmission of his own propaganda and media profile: in fact it promotes his carreer to appear on football tv shows, where he can mix prepared football comments with political views. There is no evidence that he is still a "noted football fan" when there is no oppportunity to appear on TV, and no sports journalist has praised his "expertise" on football.--81.220.15.5 11:29, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- From the article
- He is the co-author, with his brother Gabriel, of Obsolete Communism: The Left-Wing Alternative (1968), which combines an account of the events of May 1968 with a critique of Stalinism, the French Communist Party and the trade union establishment. Through this work he has had some lasting influence on anarchist and socialist thought.
- Obsolete Communism is still in print, published I think by the anarchist-oriented publishing house AK Press, though I don't have my copy on hand to check that. I got my copy off the shelf in a mainstream booksellers' politics section. Yes, it has had a lasting influence on anarchist thought. It's a classic account of May '68 combined with a strong critique of Leninism, thus combining two of many anarchists' favourite things. I've often seen it referred to in stuff on '68. No-one is attempting to deny that Cohn-Bendit has travelled in a very different direction since then. If you think you can add useful pieces of information then go ahead. Mattley 11:39, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
On this book topic, I change "he" into "they", because it is co-authoring, and Gabriel is often thought to be a thinker of at least equal lasting influence.--Arnaudherve 15:40, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence "Although a German citizen, Cohn-Bendit felt he was far more a citizen of Europe than any particular country." It seemed to me a partisan apology of his present political activity in the European institutions.--Arnaudherve 08:40, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I changed "Detailed biography" into "Detailed Autobiography". In case of a politician, it is necessary to make the difference.--Arnaudherve 08:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I changed the second sentence, in order to correct his title at the EP --Arnaudherve 14:15, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I removed the phrase "Being fluent in French", because it is obvious from the fact that he attended university and became a leading orator there. In that context it looked almost like a commercial resume.--Arnaudherve 14:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think his ethno-religious background is important. In 1968 a French Communist leader attacked him for being a German Jew. Next day, the students marched in the streets in Paris with the slogan, "We all are German Jews". --Vladko 14:23, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- It isn't important of itself, but that story would make it of significance. Do you have a source for it? I've heard it before myself, but not sure where. Mattley 15:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I removed "right-wing" from "his Jewishness and Germanness was an issue to right-wing opposition", because his origins were not a concern for center-right pro-European anti-De Gaulle movements, and were a concern for other left-wing movements. To reply to notes above, of course his German and Jewish origins must be described. He even says that his parents decided to conceive him at the end of WWII, because the future looked brighter. But don't forget that his being German was at least as important: for instance he was expelled in 68 for being a German in riots (Jew was not a legal concept, he was not Israeli). We also need to check what the French communists of the time exactly meant by "German-Jew". I guess it was an intellectual category or something.
I shifted "against De Gaulle's government" to student riots only, because the general strike was sociologically and politically totally different. I changed "the leader and the public face" into "a leader and a public face", because there were other student protesters appearing on TV. I shifted his joining the German Green party to before becoming deputy mayor of Frankfurt. I changed "leader of the French Green party" to "leader of the French Green party list for the European elections". That is the only position he ever held in the French Green party.--Arnaudherve 19:47, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I changed the chapter about his origins, in a way that I hope short and explanatory enough. I started a paragraph where he begins his new life in Germany.--Arnaudherve 20:02, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I had changed "he" into "they" about the book for the reason that Gabriel CB is a thinker at least as respected as Dany CB, when it comes to lasting intellectual influence. I see someone rewrote "he". It seems to me at least impolite to negate the influence of one of the authors in a co-authored book, and it seems to me unaccurate, because Gabriel had for instance influence in the school system in the later years. Could the person who negated "they" about a co-authored book explain his/her choice? I made Gabriel Cohn-Bendit a creatable page, at least I hope nobody will deny his existence.--81.220.15.5 04:14, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
- Go ahead. I'd be interested to read more about Gabriel C-B. The point is that this article is about Daniel C-B.It is a strange encyclopedia style to start talking about they as though they were the subject of the article. It does say very clearly that the book is co-authored. Mattley 10:22, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
I removed "he still became a central figure in that tumultuous period of French history" just out of a concern for brief style, because it seemed to me redundant with the previous sentence, then I linked it with the expulsion theme. I changed "his movement" into "his activism", because his leftist group was not included in the "German-Jew" topic, and May 68 was revolutionnary in the whole Western world, not just Cohn-Bendit districts in Paris. I wrote and/or between Jewishness and Germanness, because some political groups reproached the one and not the other, not always both (the communist party leader said "the German anarchist Cohn-Bendit"). I specified right-wing and left-wing origins in the paragraph about criticisms to his politics.--81.220.15.5 04:19, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
I am not satisfied with the mere "Cohn-Bendit followed a number of careers". I think a specific paragraph should be devoted to what he did between his expulsion from France and his joining the Green party. Could anybody help? I create a new paragraph anyway.--Arnaudherve 06:13, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed "He is a also a noted football fan." at the end of the article, because that is too much his own propaganda as a politician. In the European context it is partly "He is also very friendly" or "he is close to popular concerns", if you wish. There is no evidence that he takes an interest in football when he cannot appear in the media thanks to this pretext. I added "Although originally a binational, he renounced French citizenship, probably in order to avoid conscription." Avoiding conscription was a very common concern amongst leftists at that time. I have added a paragraph about his accisations of pedophilia, which I checked several times, from opponents and supporters websites.--Arnaudherve 06:18, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I begin importing data from his autobiography in French, which I found on this university page. obviously it will need editing after this raw import.--Arnaudherve 06:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed one of the "leader" words in the last sentence of third paragraph, for style and also in order to be more neutral. I added the names of the two other leaders. I added "to a certain extent influenced by the anti Viet-Nam war counter-culture from the United States" to describe the student atmosphere of that time. By "counter-culture" I mean not only protests against Viet-Nam war, but also new forms of pop music, Joan Baez... I hope somebody will be able to put that in better English.--Arnaudherve 08:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I have added a paragraph to account for his 2004 election. The considerable shift to the Right of German Greens, and the center-right positionning of Cohn-Bendit on the French political spectrum seemed to objective enough to mention them. I have added a few words about the terrorism controversy, because it led to an official procedure in the European Parliament.--Arnaudherve 13:23, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
At the end of the article, "his pro-European attitudes" is too vague. Precisely it is part of his political image, his trademark, to be transnational. "Pro-European" can mean staying in your country in voting in favour of Europe. If somebody finds a good phrase to express that, go ahead. I have changed the word "deported" into "expelled", because it could lead to some confusion, in respect of his Jewish origins. In his own autobiography on his website he just uses the word "expelled". I add a few paragraphs about his 1967 - 68 activities, plus about his 2004 and 2005 European activities. It is time to make chapters, but I don't know how to do it. I propose Childhood - May 1968 - The Frankfurt Years - European MP. --Arnaudherve 03:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I have transformed "In that group was also his friend Joschka Fischer" into "From then on his fate was linked to Joschka Fischer, another leader in the group", in order to introduce the later cooperations in the Green party. I have divided "the Frankfurt Years" in two new chapters in order to account more specifically on the entry in the Green Party.--Arnaudherve 16:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I have made a new chapter about the European constitution campaign. Someone should improve the bibliography too.--Arnaudherve 18:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I regret the addition of the slanted judgements in the parenthesis of "Both were later to become leaders of the Realo (i.e. pragmatical) wing (more moderate than the Fundis) of the German Green Party". From certain aspects the Realos could be labelled extremists and the Fundis moderate. The two together (pragmatical and more moderate) tend to suggest that it is the reliable part in a political conflict. Therefore I suggest removing those parenthesis and rewriting "Both were later to become of the Realo wing of the German Green Party", keeping a link on "Realo" for the readers who might be interested, and explaining the conflict more appropriately there.--Arnaudherve 07:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I have doubts about the assertion that DCB went to St Nazaire on 10 May 1968 - he attended and spoke at the 13 May demo in Paris (widely known, and asserted in books such as those cited), and later that week went to St Nazaire. He held a meeting on the evening of the 18th in St Nazaire, then a discussion on the beach the next day (Sunday 19th).
Does anyone know his precise movements in between these dates?
[edit] nitpicky edit
I changed "national" to "nationwide" in "national anarchist federation Fédération anarchiste". "National Anarchist" is something very specific and very different. The FA, which still exists, would not be amused.
[edit] Citizenship
Don't say that he is a "French German" if he does not hold French citizenship, it is misleading. Note that the French version refers to him as a "German politician".
