Talk:Computer engineering
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[edit] World view
World comprises more than US and Japan.--Light current 20:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Still, I think it's a very good article.-Anonymous Non-Member
, if someone wants to ad the IIT or chinese perspective, please do so. I don't think the article itself is very good yet. It seems to be describing something else and I am a CE. We certainly do study statics and mechanics. Possibly it should be mentioned that the private trade school ITT (not IIT) that runs all the TV ads has a "CE" degree, but their usage is an abuse of the term since their graduates do not design things but rather fix PCs and that sort of thing. (I have restored the full comment I made, which was truncated to the point where it made no sense whatsoever, inspiring the following comments. My point was about ITT (US trade school) grads with 'CE' degrees that are not real ones, but just fix-it degrees, which should be distinguished from real ones from real universities that have a curriculum involving calculus and quantum physics). RichardAdams 08:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Computer engineering graduates do design things, anything from hardware to software, depending on their specialization. As far as I know most computer engineers do not fix PCs. Those are usually the technologists and technicians. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.52.166.205 (talk • contribs) .
Yes, CEs do design. Take megasquirt as an unofficial example. Please sign your comments. --ДрakюлaTalk 15:14, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I think an abuse of use section can be added to the article. BTW, instead of randomly inserting universities in the article, I've made a list for the academic departments. Does anyone think a list like this is appropiate? Also, I feel that "Computer engineering technology" should have its own article since its not really about computer engineering itself. Engineering is a profession with professional regulations and its own governing body. These bodies only accept people with accrediated degrees as members. Also, I feel "Degree level education" section needs a bit of cleanup. I vote for a more international perspective. This article mainly describes North America and Asia. Views from other continents would be ideal.--Shion Uzuki 07:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm studying BEng Computer Systems Engineering at University of Glamorgan, in UK at the moment. I don't see anything that has a U.K-based view or influence on this article. I think that part of the matter should be expanded. It seems C.S.E. has different names or abbreviations in some parts of the world. 193.63.131.152 (talk) 17:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Academic departments
Are you kidding !? Only in Brazil must have equal number of Departments, what is relevance of this VERY uncompleted list ??? Please move this section to new article and complete the list, or remove it. --200.232.147.103
- I agree. Furthermore, I am highly skeptical that the list will ever be complete, or that it will be useful if it is complete. Besides, lists like this are much better handled through categories. I have removed the list of academic departments from the article. --Allan McInnes (talk) 01:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Agree. A list of that kind is useless. Thanks.--Shion Uzuki 03:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] CE vs CpE
Before reading this article I had never heard CE referred to Computer Engineering except by mistake. I'm a Computer engineering student, and my university refers to it as CpE in order to seperate it from Civil and Chemical engineering (both more common than computer). Is CE really a more common abbreviation than CpE? Should we add CpE/remove CE from the article? --Bakkster Man 02:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
- My university uses both CE and CpE for Computer and uses CE for Civil. Chemical seems to have been replaced by Materials here. However, it's difficult to say which is a "more common" abbreviation for Computer (CE vs. CpE), but clearly CE is more common for Civil (CE vs. CE). Personally I find CpE to be better, as it is less ambiguous, but that's nothing more than POV. Regardless of which is more acceptable, it seems both are widely used from a quick Google search. I've also seen CmpE used. --Kamasutra 06:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I have never seen CpE used and only CE, my school however does not offer Chemical engineering so there would be less confusion --129.21.115.54 19:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
At the University of Michigan, CE is Computer Engineering, ChemE is Chemical Engineering, and CEE is Civil and Environmental Engineering.
At Purdue, CE is Civil Engineering, ChemE is Chemical Engineering, and CmpE is Computer Engineering.
At Iowa State, CE is Civil Engineering, ChemE is Chemical Engineering, and CprE is Computer Engineering. It seems that as every university has different abbreviations for computer engineers, this article should use none. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.216.45.51 (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Another point to make here is that many tertiary institutions refer to Computer Engineering as Computer Systems Engineering (CSE) to avoid the above confusion, this article almost seems to make the claim (in the academic discipline section) that Computer Systems Engineering is in fact a subset of Computer Engineering, rather than another name for the same discipline. Perhaps this should be noted in the description to avoid confusion? (Frenchy 9999 06:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Definition of Computer Engineering
The definition of computer engineering in the header seems to keep subtly changing back-and-forth.
Saying computer engineering encompasses both computer science and electrical engineering is correct. However, that is not very detailed. If more detail is required then in reality, both at most universities and in the workplace, the following definition is accurate:
"Computer engineers are electrical engineers that have additional training in the areas of software design and hardware-software integration. In turn, they have less emphasis on power electronics and physics."
Is there anyone that disagrees with this? This was removed in favour of:
"This hybrid of electronic engineering and computer science allows the computer engineer to work on both software and hardware, and to integrate the two."
While that is accurate, it is simply a restatement of "computer engineering encompasses both computer science and electrical engineering". If more detail is required then the first definition is more accurate and more detailed.
Along these same lines, in the opening line about how computer engineers are involved in all aspects of computing, I added in a statement about designing circuits, since it exclusively referred to computer architecture. Computer engineers, both in academia and the workplace are involved in more than just computer architecture.
Also, along these lines, I removed the statement about in the workplace "electronics engineers" and "computer engineers" sometimes work together, since it both somewhat out of place and it is a bit misleading. It is misleading because in that it seems to continue to imply that computer engineers can't be involved with hardware design. In reality computer engineers can't be labeled so easily in academia or the work place. They may be working on hardware, they may be working on software, they may be working on the integration of the two. The original definition explains exactly what their strength and weaknesses are.
Drdestiny77 01:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- I like the changes you made. The new definition is a lot better. RichardAdams
- I agree with RichardAdams. --Allan McInnes (talk) 17:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The definition has been recently changed (by someone else).
The new edit:
"Computer engineers are electrical engineers who have chosen to specialize in digital systems and controls rather than power electronics and physics. This specialization requires additional training in the areas of software design and theory, hardware-software integration, and instrumentation. "
Replaces the original:
"Computer engineers are electrical engineers that have additional training in the areas of software design and hardware-software integration. In turn, they have less emphasis on power electronics and physics."
The new edit can mislead people into thinking the computer engineers do not have any training in analog systems; this is not the case. Also this new edit mentions instrumentation as a particular example of computer engineering. I would not consider instrumentation to be a defining element of computer engineering (at least not any more so than some other disiplines of engineering). Other than these differences, the new definition says pretty much the same thing as the old definition, except with more words.
I am reverting back to the old definitions. Please discuss any proposed changes here.
Thank you.
Drdestiny77 03:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I see. . . and the original definition talks about analog training? Instrumentation was included because many CEs are required to integrate analog signals from instruments to digital systems. We could also toss in PID control. Septagram 04:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think saying computer engineers specialize in digital systems could be interpreted by some as meaning that computer engineers don't go through the mathematics, science, engineering training in analog electrical and electronic circuits. Of course, in fact, computer engineers take many courses in these matters. Depending on electives, some even more so than others.
- It's not that I think the statement is flat out wrong; I just think it can be misinterupted easier. I espically imagine someone who is thinking about entering engineering, trying to learn about the different disciplines, and getting the impression that if they study computer engineering all they will learn about is digital systems.
- As for instrumentation, I don't have any problem with throwing that in. The control side of instrumentation relates a fair bit to computer engineering. I guess I was thinking more about the measurment side of instrumentation when I made my original comment.
- My opinion is we shouldn't toss in PID control that early in the article. I think it is too specific for the opening lines of the article, which I think should be pretty high-level. I think the opening of this article needs to be able to convey the idea of computer engineering. Ultimately computer engineering evolved out of a need for electrical engineers that have some more training in software, as well as how it integrates with hardware. I think that needs to come out in the first few lines, with additional detail, with as little clutter as possible.
- Perhaps PID control could find a place elsewhere in the article.
- Drdestiny77 04:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Another edit was made to the description of computer engineering. It removed the comparison to electrical engineering. The statement no longer made any sense (as it wasn't clear what was being compared). I have re-added the term electrical engineering. Since electrical engineering forms the basis of computer engineering, this comparison is generally considered valid. Computer engineers are trained as electrical engineers, except for the differences mentioned in the description.
This description has been worked on by editors of this page for quite some time. Please discuss further changes here. Thanks!
Drdestiny77 09:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made an update to the definition of computer engineering. I removed the statement saying that computer engineering is also known as "hardware engineering", as this isn't true in academia or industry. I've also removed the phrase "black-box system comprehension" and replaced it with "system -level design". Additionally, I finally put a reference for the second line. There are many references to choose from, but I choose one from an IEEE sponsored resource aimed at students looking to enter engineering professions. Their definition is consistent with that in academia and industry, and it seems like significant research has gone into its creation. I have also cleaned up the examples of the kinds of work computer engineers do, as it was turning into a Frankenstein sentence (everyone had added one or two random things here or there, and it was beginning to not make sense) =). I've also put in links to other pages in wikipedia for some of the examples.
Once again, it would best to discuss changes here, as many people helped create this definition for quite some time.
Drdestiny77 02:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Video Game Programming
I'm going to be a freshman at college and I'm not sure about my major in Computer Engineering. I'm hoping to become a video game programmer and don't know if a BS on Computer Engineering would be the best choice for me if I do pursue that career. I've heard that people with Computer Science degrees have better chances at programming games, but if I do decide to major in Computer Engineering, would I still be on the same boat as the people with CS degrees?—Preceding unsigned comment added by L0cth0rp (talk • contribs) Computer Engineering has much more of a hardware focus rather than a software focus. You would be much better off getting a CS degree if you want to program video games.
- I don't mean to be a spoilsport, but you may want to reconsider becoming a video game programmer (incidentally, my degree was computer engineering). They will make you work 80 hours a week, burn you up, and spit you back out. You will have to work within amazingly tight deadlines, and there will be a constant revolving door of starry-eyed graduates wanting to compete for your job. You may try it if you like, but you will be so burnt out that you may not ever want to touch a keyboard ever again. Currently I work a 40-an-hour week job doing programming for a not-so-exciting discipline (first, transportation engineering, then tv advertising agencies). It's not glamorous, but I am able to balance programming with a fulfilling personal life. You will feel healthier, and possibly make a better salary and get more vacation. Keep in mind that being a computer engineer doesn't preclude you from going into programming, as long as you stock up on computer science electives. Also, computer engineering gives you a different perspective on programming that's not offered in computer science curriculae (specifically, how your code behaves at the hardware level, and you will have more math and science background). This may help you as a video game programmer, or a scientific research programmer, as you will be more aware of tricks to squeeze out performance. When you graduate, you will have the option of either going into engineering or programming. You will be more versatile while running the risk of being slightly less qualified in programming than a graduate with a CS degree.--Cnadolski 17:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
- At my school, computer engineers write games and examine high-performance computer graphics architectures as a case of computer architecture. The CS prof does not typically consider game writing a valid problem in CS as it normally lacks theory.
Computer engineers write the graphics drivers (and most, if not all the IO drivers). EE discipline is typically devoid of programming and the software engineers are typically not exposed to enough hardware
The Computer Engineer is the one who puts it all together, sitting at the interface between the hardware and the software. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.128.56 (talk • contribs)
[edit] Computer Engineering being phased out at universities?
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so this somewhat disturbing trend I've observed here may not be representative of the worldwide (or even USA-wide) perspective, so can someone with more broad knowledge of how CE is treated at universities please provide some insight? From what I see here, several key institutions (notably Stanford) which once had CE majors have dropped them in favor of more traditional CS or EE majors. Is this a widespread trend, and if so, why? 71.146.0.79 07:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- At my school, Georgia Tech, CmpE = EE + a couple CS classes. And I'm fairly certain that it's here to stay. I'd prefer it if they combined the schools into EECS, but I doubt that's going to happen in the next twenty years. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 14:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Computer Engineers Vandalizing Wiki
Once and a while a person, who may be a Computer Engineer, vandalizes this wiki by saying Computer Engineering (CE) is like working at a slaughterhouse or the like. Please avoid such gross comparisons or slaughterhouses may claim we are trying to drive them out of business. I know that CE is not the “hot job” in demand and managers want the CE to do both the work of the EE and CS they fired. Nevertheless, be objective and tactful. Septagram 04:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Recently it seems several people are vandalizing this page. Is this normal for engineering sites or is it just this one site that a few miscreants have it in for CE? Septagram 04:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
So computer engineering is not on demand and the computer engineer works a lot? And how is the incoming? Daniel Leite 12:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding your questions.
Is the vandalizing done by random or is there a person(s) who have a problem with computer engineering. All the other pages I watch do not have this problem.Septagram 03:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] I need more info on Computer engineering
I want to know the kind of work a computer engineer does and I also want some information about universities with the best Computer engineering courses.196.207.12.58 17:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
In a nut shell, a Computer engineering (CE) occupies a place between an Electrical Engineer (EE) and a Computer Scientist (CS). The EE (who can be anyone who designs power plants to microscopic integrated circuits) tends to be the ones who make the individual bits of hardware (CPU, chips . . . ) for computers. The CS tend to “ignore” hardware and work only on software applications. The problem came when the two fields overlapped. EEs needing to take all those chips and make them work together to accept software. The CSs needed to take their big applications and figure out how to get the hardware to accept it. Enters the CE, who takes all those chips, puts them together so they are ready for software, then writes the bits of software that permits the large software application to talk to hardware.
On large team projects a CE may get a little part of the hardware and software to integrate (like having the USB port chip talk to the south bridge chipset on a supercomputer). On small projects, the CE may write all the software and build all the hardware (like building a programmable thermostat or hand-held devices). The typical project a CE may have, is some dedicated embedded system (mostly a single purpose electronic system using one software program and a “microcontroller” which its main function in life is unchangeable by the user. Like a TV remote controller or a jumbo jet). The nature of the beast for a CE job is mostly contract work where a company may need a new project (i.e., a space shuttle) done in three months ready to ship and have the CE come back, on call, to fix your bugs, or other peoples bugs. Get use to terms like “can hit the ground running,” “likes to work under pressure,” and “must own the job.” In many cases the CE is the first man to prototype managements ideas and last man to get it all working before the dead line after everyone else has “done their job”. Sometimes, a company may realize they need a CE permanently when they realize just how useful CEs are, for example fixing problems that crop up in a production environment. A common misconception by managers is, since CEs can do both hardware and software, they can 100% replace both an EE and/or a CS with a CE with the same efficiency. A CE is around 50% EE and 50% CS. Which means you do not want a CE to create an accounting program or design an electric generator for Hoover Dam. Other than that, being a CE is a lot of fun. Septagram 20:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, i am a CE student, and i read your post in the CE article, saying that a CE works under pressure, but my brain dont work well under pressure, do you think this is not the right job for me? And are you a CE? And being a CE is a lot of fun??? how is that? Daniel Leite 12:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Every job has pressures. Because engineering is a field that is mainly used in the creation of new things, there is going to be a lot of deadlines to deliver those new things on time. Some employers will expect 80+ hours to meet their deadlines. Some will expect only 40. Some will give you two rocks to bang together and expect a super computer. others will have the proper equipment and supplies. Some will want you to do the work of three engineers. Others will hire what is needed to achieve the goal. If you fall into a position at a place that is "good", there will be a lot less stress. If you take a job at a place that has had fired several other engineers before you on the same project "that could not do the job", expect lots of stress. Stress in engineering jobs can be little or no stress up to bursting a vein. It all depends on the type of work, product, industry, and management style. The main thing to ask is, do you enjoy working on computers and being an engineer. If you enjoy what you do, then it comes down to finding the "right" employer or starting your own "right business." Doing what you enjoy, normally means you do it well and that in its self reduces stress. To find this "right" fit may mean you may have to be willing to tell the 80+ hour employer that you can not work under those terms or turning down customers in your business. I suggest you use your career councilor at your school or an employment center to find the right type of company/areas to work in or the bad ones to avoid. Now when you say you don't work well under pressure, you should also bring this up and see if it is as bad as you say or you may be as normal as everyone else. Am I a CE? I R a Komputter Ingineeer (joke). Is being a CE fun? Some times, especially when things work as expected and you get paid. Ultimately, you will find out that many times customers, coworkers, and management can make a job heaven or hell and the profession is not the problem. Well, it could also be a profession problem since there are a lot of engineering jobs ending up in India and China or people being brought to the US creating a glut of indigenous engineers. Also you should post your question on the CE site so other can see it and my response.Septagram (talk) 04:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Case for Verilog
In the CE program at the university of Colorado Colorado Springs (UCCS), they are very heavy into Verilog and use it to program FPGAs, SOCs and other embedded projects. I believe that Verilog should be included as part of the CE article. Maybe the Verilog professor at UCCS could explain Verilogs' benefits better than I? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Septagram (talk • contribs).
- Programming PLDs is definitely part of Computer Engineering (or should be, since it makes heavy use of digital logic, software code, and general electronics, which are the foundations of CE), but rather than focusing on Verilog specifically, this needs to be generalized for a general article like this. Verilog is in a special class of languages called HDLs (Hardware Design Languages), and it competes with VHDL for popularity (although Verilog seems to be more popular in North America). These HDLs are used to program PLDs, the most advanced of which are generally FPGAs. So, yes, this is a very notable sub-field of CE, but instead of focusing only on one language like Verilog, there should be a mention of hardware design languages and how they're used to design SOCs out of FPGAs, CPLDs, and the like, with appropriate links to more specific and detailed articles. 69.226.218.90 22:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] CE practicing as EE?
Hello this is my first post here in wikipedia.I read all your discussions and was a bit confused.Actually I took CE so that I can later go for Masters in Microelectronics and become a specialized Electronics design engineer(who designs electronic circuits and electronic devices such as chips,transistors etc.)in any company such as Intel,AMD,samsung etc. my question is the things i planned for myself do you find it to be wrong? Can i later go for masters in microelectronics and practice the job that electronics engineers do or should i go for something else after Bachelor's in CE? thanks alotJmsssak (talk) 18:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
There are too many variables to take into account. My suggestion is you talk to your professors, councilors at the university, and HR people at companies you wish to work for and find out if you are taking the correct education path for the goals you plan to achieve. Do not worry about money or employment stability, if you are doing the career you prefer and are proficient, you will likely do as well in that career as any other career. I read that in the long run, most career choices pay about the same for the level of education achieved (some specialized careers, i.e doctors, lawyers, MBA's, and most types of engineering may pay better while other careers also pay less. Your mileage may vary). If being a design engineer is truly your dream job that will make you happy, go for it and let nothing persuade you from that path.Septagram (talk) 04:32, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Subjects comparison offered in CE and EE?
thank you septagram for replying my message.Well the problem I am dealing with is that I am currently in Pakistan.Institutes here are offering Computer Engineering courses but they are not totally aware of its meaning and application.When i asked them my above question they just couldn't say anything and i realized they don't have information on such questions of mine. In my Institute the subjects of CE and Electronics Engineering are exactly same till the 6th semester.In sixth semester they are offered two different subjects which are 1...electronic devices measurement and instrumentation 2...microwave electronics
and in 7th semester they have one different course 1...industrial electronics.
other than that all the courses offered in CE and EE are same.My question here is after Bachelor's in CE can i go for Masters in EE? I don't see any reason why i can't but still you know more than i do.Please answer my this question.THANK YOU (members of wikipedia and wikipedia itself).Jmsssak (talk) 20:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Computer Science and Engineering
I am a student of Computer Science and Engineering in India. Here are the subjects that I have studied.
1. Electrical Technology (DC, AC machines, transformers etc),
2. Discrete Mathematical Structures
3. Digital Electronics (counter design, flip flop etc)
4. Electronic Circuits (transistors, diodes, amplifiers, opamps etc)
5. Principles of Programming Languages
6. Automata Languages and Computation
7. Computer Architecture & Organization
8. Data Structures and Algorithms
9. LANGUAGE PROCESSORS (compiler design theory)
8. SOFTWARE ENGINEERING
9. MICROPROCESSORS (8085, PIC, other ics used for 8085 working and peripheral integration)
10. Data Communication (AM, FM, PSK etc about computer and data communication)
11. DATABASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS
12. DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING
13. OPERATING SYSTEMS
14. COMPUTER GRAPHICS
15. MICROPROCESSOR SYSTEM DESIGN ( 8086, 386, 486 ... chip level details)
16. CONTROL SYSTEMS ENGINEERING ( That was an EE subject, Bode plot and like things)
17. COMPUTER NETWORKS
18. ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
19. ANALYSIS & DESIGN OF ALGORITHMS
20. ADVANCED ARCHITECTURE & PARALLEL PROCESSING
21. ARTIFICIAL NEURAL NETWORKS
22. SECURITY IN COMPUTING
23. DISTRIBUTED COMPUTING
24. INDUSTRIAL ORGANISATION AND MANAGEMENT (sucks !!!!)
25. ALGORITHMS AND COMPLEXITY
What do you think? Is it more Computer Science or Computer Engineering? If its computer engineering, why did they add 'science' ?
anoop_anooprs (talk) Apr. 15 2008, 04:30:06 UTC —Preceding comment was added at 04:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
- Can you state which University in India provides this CSE course?
- It may be eligible enough to be added to the list of universities around the world providing this course.
- 88.105.26.227 (talk) 10:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Added Technology-tag
 |
This documentation is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Technology or the Technology Portal may be able to help recruit one. |
I've added the technology tag, requesting a more "technical" view of the aspects of this degree course, hopefully to counteract the scientific view of the subject.
88.105.26.227 (talk) 10:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Added merge-tag: SAME/DIFFERENT course? {-{tl|merge|Computer Science and Engineering}-}
It seems your course does exist in another article with quite a similar name. Although there ARE some differences of the modules you're taking comparing with the ones provided for 1st and 2nd year students of CSE from Glamorgan University. Are they both the same or different course??? 88.105.26.227 (talk) 11:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
CSE 2nd Year modules taken at Glamorgan University
- EC2S04 NETWORKING & INTERFACING
- EC2S05 CONFIGURATION & PROGRAMMING OF EMBEDDED SYSTEMS
- EE2H01 BUSINESS AND FINANCE FOR ENGINEERS
- EE2H02 GROUP PROJECT
- EE2S06 DIGITAL ELECTRONICS II
- MH2S02 SIGNALS & DIGITAL COMMUNICATIONS
- SS2S01/SS2S02 RELATIONAL DATABASE SYSTEMS
Any difference?
88.105.34.154 (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is not a Forum
Hi, I just want to remind everyone that this is a talk page for the Computer Engineering article, and should be used for discussing improvements to this article, NOT as a general forum about Computer Engineering. Please restrict your comments so that they pertain directly to improving the article. Thank you.--Aervanath's signature is boring 04:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
